International Vintage Volkswagen Forums

For several years now I have suspected that possibly 2 rear window types were originally fitted to the VW typ-14 Hebmueller.
Certainly a large type exists and I am posting a photo here that helps understand the difference. These photos come from Alain Vuilleumier of Switzerland who owns 1950 Heb no 679.
He purchased a beautifully made Claus Missing frame but found when he got home that his original glass would not fit. We know the history of this car and the glass clearly shows the orginal Sekurit markings so we are comfortable that this is the car's original piece. Further, even the earliest of photos of pre production cars show the larger type glass. Unlike the general rule for glass this window did not evolve and grow. If anything the smaller type came later.
When Ruud de Ruiter of Holland purchased his car no 201 his rear window was missing so he duly purchased a similar frame and glass. Some time later he acquired Heb 410 that came with a window, only to find it would not fit the frame he had at home.
It may have been that post fire production and design was slightly tweaked with a flatter bottom to facilitate production. Possibly a template was used from a different car the factory produced, after all that particular design was used extensively at Hebmueller and other coachbuilders. But maybe this could be part of the proof that bodies were shipped elsewhere to be completed and that the hoods were finished with some minor differences.
Maybe someone can post a photo of the smaller type. Claus kindly posted a photo on the forum with some dimensions, and I am hoping that we can understand this better in Hessisch-Oldendorf next week.  679glass (3).JPG You have insufficient rights to see the content.  679glass (2).JPG You have insufficient rights to see the content.

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Ok Yan, I will be there. I'll take a patern paper with me to compare.
See you in BBT open House?

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This was the photo Claus posted:



I also have these photos from Bad Camberg...

 IMG_0049.jpg You have insufficient rights to see the content.  IMG_0051.jpg You have insufficient rights to see the content.

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Thank you Peter. Alain sends us this photo of the SEKURIT marking on his 'big' window.
This window is original.  679SEKURIT.JPG You have insufficient rights to see the content.

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Thank you Rob.
I also found my template would not fit my beautiful wooden frame (same provenance as Alain's) and found the template to be 60.5cm across. On the photo it is lined up with the frame recess at the left, so you can clearly gauge the overlap at the right.  SmallWood.JPG You have insufficient rights to see the content.  Template.JPG You have insufficient rights to see the content.  605mmAcross.JPG You have insufficient rights to see the content.

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Hello Yan, i will bring a wooden frame and window...supposed to be for the 410
i am taking the 410 with me..its maiden trip(for me)
see you there

Ruud

yan, bring the wood please! i have a small window...maybe it fits

Ruud

OK, could you also bring a rubber seal please so we can all view the section? Even a small piece is OK. The car is loaded but there's still some space! Thank you  loaded062013.JPG You have insufficient rights to see the content.

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Yan taking measurements at any opportunity...

For the benefit of the forum, what was the outcome of the discussion?  c103e43f-6f86-456e-a89d-581a68fd687f.jpg You have insufficient rights to see the content.

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It was clear that 2 versions of the back window were used. The most of the cars now have the small window. A fair amount of the cars on the period picts have a slight bigger window in a banana shape, but some cars in the period picts have also the small ones.
To find out what car used the big or the small window when new is impossible.
Greetings.

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Actually that was not the outcome at all. Despite searching and searching I was still not able to locate a single small rear window that carried a genuine Sekurit etching. There remains absolutely no evidence at all to support the credibility of the small window. If evidence comes to light, I will report it to the forum. It was clear from photographic evidence that the big window was fitted to cars by Hebmuller even going back to the earliest pre-production cars (not to be confused with prototypes). Speaking To Klaus Hebmuller he was confident his car carried the right shape window, the big one of course.
The wonderful outcome of this investigation at Hessisch-Oldendorf 2013 was that Claus Missing has decided to produce his beautifully made window frames in the big format and Pascal Knockaerts from Belgium who produced a series of small glass pieces to suit the frames has now got the template for the bigger window, taken from a genuine Sekurit example. If you have fitted the small window, it is possible to upgrade to the bigger window relatively easily. If you are thinking of redoing your roof, be sure to go to order the bigger frame of course.  Yan+Klaus Hebmuller HO2013.jpg You have insufficient rights to see the content.

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Dear Hebmuller friends,

I have already bought the wooden kit from Claus a few years ago and the rear window from Pascal.

What is the price for upgrade to the correct bigger size?

Thomas

Do you really want to buy it again for such a small size difference?

As we have not a real proof of the bigger window beeing the only right one.
Hebmüller made so many convertibles over the decades. Having more than one size of windows at hand would not surprise me at all. And back in those days they gave a damn if they fittet some windows that where two or three centimeters smaller.
So until there emerges any proof of just one "correct" window size, I´d be fine with both of them.

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