Reset Password · International Vintage Volkswagen Forums

Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register

Posted by: mrmagyar - 19 November 2008 19:25:45
Hi everybody, Does anybody know what became of 'Rattletrap', the '52 Split once owned by Tony Levy?

Posted by: Mike Peckham - 19 November 2008 20:51:56
As far as I know it's now in the Bentley Motor Museum near Ringmer in East Sussex. At one point VW wanted it for their Museum at Wolfsberg but I think after it was written off and then rebuilt with a new everything (Tony used to joke that all that was original was the gear knob) they decided against it. By then of course Albert Kleins million mile plus Beetle had hit the press and taken the honour of the worlds highest mileage VW away from Rattle trap. Mike

Posted by: Mike Peckham - 19 November 2008 20:51:56

As far as I know it's now in the Bentley Motor Museum near Ringmer in East Sussex. At one point VW wanted it for their Museum at Wolfsberg but I think after it was written off and then rebuilt with a new everything (Tony used to joke that all that was original was the gear knob) they decided against it. By then of course Albert Kleins million mile plus Beetle had hit the press and taken the honour of the worlds highest mileage VW away from Rattle trap. Mike

Posted by: mrsherbie - 20 November 2008 09:25:12
I pass through Ringmer all the time, but have never been in, I will pop in to see it, Thanks! :d

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 20 November 2008 10:28:38
I keep meaning to pop in too whenever I'm passing. I don't believe that car was any kind of prototype, just a regular Beetle that got updated over the years.

Posted by: Mike Peckham - 20 November 2008 11:29:25
Rich, like you, I don’t think it was any sort of prototype either but Tony maintained that it was one of a batch of experimental cars that was made available to British Servicemen and featured a number of mods that would be introduced later on production cars. It’s a long time ago (probably over 20 years) since I saw the car or indeed talked to Tony about it, but I remember it having post 08/55 rear lights, later doors and other anomalies that Tony put down to it’s “experimental” nature. Having said that, after it was written off during it’s Pan American exploits, (wasn’t it hit side on by a big American SUV?) it was rebuilt, I think with a replacement chassis and body so there really was nothing other than sundry items left from the original car. It’s true provenance therefore would be difficult now to establish especially as Tony is no longer with us to tell the story. I also keep meaning to go and take a look at it, the last time I saw it was shortly after its reincarnation when Tony displayed it on a trade stand at VW Action probably in about 1986? It seemed to disappear from the scene shortly after that, probably due to the emergence of Mr Kleins beetle? Mike

Posted by: Mike Peckham - 20 November 2008 11:29:25

Rich, like you, I don’t think it was any sort of prototype either but Tony maintained that it was one of a batch of experimental cars that was made available to British Servicemen and featured a number of mods that would be introduced later on production cars. It’s a long time ago (probably over 20 years) since I saw the car or indeed talked to Tony about it, but I remember it having post 08/55 rear lights, later doors and other anomalies that Tony put down to it’s “experimental” nature. Having said that, after it was written off during it’s Pan American exploits, (wasn’t it hit side on by a big American SUV?) it was rebuilt, I think with a replacement chassis and body so there really was nothing other than sundry items left from the original car. It’s true provenance therefore would be difficult now to establish especially as Tony is no longer with us to tell the story. I also keep meaning to go and take a look at it, the last time I saw it was shortly after its reincarnation when Tony displayed it on a trade stand at VW Action probably in about 1986? It seemed to disappear from the scene shortly after that, probably due to the emergence of Mr Kleins beetle? Mike

Posted by: mrmagyar - 21 November 2008 14:41:42
Hi, Thanks for all the replies. I recently read a March 1991 edition of VW Motoring and there's an article about the restoration of Rattletrap after it was seriously damaged after being hit by a truck in Tennessee. After being brought back to the UK, House Of Haselock (no longer around I believe) were just starting the strip-down to assess the damage. Apparently the car was so badly corroded the only thing keeping the body on the floorpan was its own weight. Everything just fell apart with rust. The idea was that it would be restored in time for VW Action in September of the same year; a bit ambitious by any stretch.

Posted by: mrmagyar - 21 November 2008 14:41:42

Hi, Thanks for all the replies. I recently read a March 1991 edition of VW Motoring and there's an article about the restoration of Rattletrap after it was seriously damaged after being hit by a truck in Tennessee. After being brought back to the UK, House Of Haselock (no longer around I believe) were just starting the strip-down to assess the damage. Apparently the car was so badly corroded the only thing keeping the body on the floorpan was its own weight. Everything just fell apart with rust. The idea was that it would be restored in time for VW Action in September of the same year; a bit ambitious by any stretch.

Posted by: Mike Peckham - 21 November 2008 15:41:53
That would mean that the last time I saw the car would have been at Action 91 (I was five years adrift!). In that case it’s likely that Rattletrap was displayed on Haselocks trade stand at Action and Tony was there to show people around. It was then that he was telling people (in jest though probably not far from the truth) that the only thing that remained original on the car was the gear knob! There was a lot of press interest in Rattletrap prior to Mr Kleins Beetle taking the lime light from it, and several articles in VW Motoring too. The writers used very diplomatically to say that not everything quite added up about the car… I would be very surprised if there was much of the body or chassis that was salvageable from the original car after the crash, partly because of the extent of the crash damage but also because of the amount of rust they found. I have a feeling that it ended up a zwitter after the accident and I’m not sure that is was one before. Though I can’t be certain of that… Tony was very Scathing of Albert Kleins Beetle, when it first emerged he raised doubts about its authenticity and then when it turned out that the mileage was documented at least as well as Rattletraps he then chastised Mr Klein over the way in which he achieved the high mileage, ie; driving round and round the ring road on the way home from work, apparently Rattletraps mileage was far more purposeful! Mike

Posted by: Mike Peckham - 21 November 2008 15:41:53

That would mean that the last time I saw the car would have been at Action 91 (I was five years adrift!). In that case it’s likely that Rattletrap was displayed on Haselocks trade stand at Action and Tony was there to show people around. It was then that he was telling people (in jest though probably not far from the truth) that the only thing that remained original on the car was the gear knob! There was a lot of press interest in Rattletrap prior to Mr Kleins Beetle taking the lime light from it, and several articles in VW Motoring too. The writers used very diplomatically to say that not everything quite added up about the car… I would be very surprised if there was much of the body or chassis that was salvageable from the original car after the crash, partly because of the extent of the crash damage but also because of the amount of rust they found. I have a feeling that it ended up a zwitter after the accident and I’m not sure that is was one before. Though I can’t be certain of that… Tony was very Scathing of Albert Kleins Beetle, when it first emerged he raised doubts about its authenticity and then when it turned out that the mileage was documented at least as well as Rattletraps he then chastised Mr Klein over the way in which he achieved the high mileage, ie; driving round and round the ring road on the way home from work, apparently Rattletraps mileage was far more purposeful! Mike

Posted by: JD - 21 November 2008 15:48:10
I seem to remember that there was a great show made of NOS panels being found for the "restoration", and then it all suddenly went a bit "here´s one we made earlier". It was pretty obvious that they´d used another car entirely.

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 21 November 2008 16:39:41
I met Tony a couple of times. The last time was in 1996 at Peppercorn where he displayed the car. Whenever I spoke to him, he seemed quite rude and he certainly didn't seem interetsed in answering my questions about the authenticity of his 'experimental car' claim, so from that point on, I've always dismissed the story as utter bullsh*t.

Posted by: JD - 22 November 2008 01:14:59
[quote=Rich Oakley]I met Tony a couple of times. Whenever I spoke to him, he seemed quite rude [/quote] That was my impression too, after a brief chat at VW Action once.

Posted by: mrmagyar - 22 November 2008 11:55:23
I've just been on the Bentley Motor Museum web site and they have some thumbnail images of cars in the collection. If you click on the picture of the DeLorean you can see a Beetle in the background, presumably Rattletrap. https://www.bentley.org.uk/#/motormuseumgallery/4525136549 It seems such a shame a car that was so well known in VW circles has ended its days in a small motor museum almost forgotten, although as you say there is probably nothing left of the original '52 Rattletrap. It would be interesting to see what the restoration looks like...

Posted by: mrmagyar - 22 November 2008 11:55:23

I've just been on the Bentley Motor Museum web site and they have some thumbnail images of cars in the collection. If you click on the picture of the DeLorean you can see a Beetle in the background, presumably Rattletrap. https://www.bentley.org.uk/#/motormuseumgallery/4525136549 It seems such a shame a car that was so well known in VW circles has ended its days in a small motor museum almost forgotten, although as you say there is probably nothing left of the original '52 Rattletrap. It would be interesting to see what the restoration looks like...

Posted by: 55Kab - 24 November 2008 12:44:56
Pulled my photo collection out of storage this weekend and came across these > thought you'd find them interesting. Here's the car as displayed at VW Action in September 1990, Tony in the drivers seat about to hae some tea! [IMG]https://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/UK55Vert/UK%20VW%20Scene%20-%20HISTORY/10BXKActionSeptember1990p1.jpg[/IMG] Not toooo bad from this angle [IMG]https://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/UK55Vert/UK%20VW%20Scene%20-%20HISTORY/10BXKActionSeptember1990p2.jpg[/IMG] But pretty bad from this angle! [IMG]https://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/UK55Vert/UK%20VW%20Scene%20-%20HISTORY/10BXKActionSeptember1990p3.jpg[/IMG] Ouch! [IMG]https://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/UK55Vert/UK%20VW%20Scene%20-%20HISTORY/10BXKActionSeptember1990p4.jpg[/IMG] Very Ouch! [IMG]https://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/UK55Vert/UK%20VW%20Scene%20-%20HISTORY/10BXKActionSeptember1990p5.jpg[/IMG] And true to word, at the next Action in September 1991, the car had been fully restored and was looking like new. [IMG]https://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/UK55Vert/UK%20VW%20Scene%20-%20HISTORY/10BXKActionSeptember1991p6.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/UK55Vert/UK%20VW%20Scene%20-%20HISTORY/10BXKActionSeptember1991p7.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/UK55Vert/UK%20VW%20Scene%20-%20HISTORY/10BXKActionSeptember1991p8.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/UK55Vert/UK%20VW%20Scene%20-%20HISTORY/10BXKActionSeptember1991p9.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: 55Kab - 24 November 2008 12:44:56

Pulled my photo collection out of storage this weekend and came across these > thought you'd find them interesting. Here's the car as displayed at VW Action in September 1990, Tony in the drivers seat about to hae some tea! [IMG]https://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/UK55Vert/UK%20VW%20Scene%20-%20HISTORY/10BXKActionSeptember1990p1.jpg[/IMG] Not toooo bad from this angle [IMG]https://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/UK55Vert/UK%20VW%20Scene%20-%20HISTORY/10BXKActionSeptember1990p2.jpg[/IMG] But pretty bad from this angle! [IMG]https://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/UK55Vert/UK%20VW%20Scene%20-%20HISTORY/10BXKActionSeptember1990p3.jpg[/IMG] Ouch! [IMG]https://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/UK55Vert/UK%20VW%20Scene%20-%20HISTORY/10BXKActionSeptember1990p4.jpg[/IMG] Very Ouch! [IMG]https://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/UK55Vert/UK%20VW%20Scene%20-%20HISTORY/10BXKActionSeptember1990p5.jpg[/IMG] And true to word, at the next Action in September 1991, the car had been fully restored and was looking like new. [IMG]https://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/UK55Vert/UK%20VW%20Scene%20-%20HISTORY/10BXKActionSeptember1991p6.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/UK55Vert/UK%20VW%20Scene%20-%20HISTORY/10BXKActionSeptember1991p7.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/UK55Vert/UK%20VW%20Scene%20-%20HISTORY/10BXKActionSeptember1991p8.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/UK55Vert/UK%20VW%20Scene%20-%20HISTORY/10BXKActionSeptember1991p9.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 24 November 2008 17:29:48
Great pics Martin!

Posted by: mrsherbie - 25 November 2008 10:28:20
Wow! great pics! I have never known much about that car. Very interesting though, but would'nt want to own it! :shock: a million mile beetle is not one most of us would exactly aspire to owning is it! I think I will take a total lack of a low mile cars history over million mile provenance! :lol:

Posted by: Mike Peckham - 25 November 2008 12:37:06
Great Pics! Not just of the car but they some how pick up the atmosphere of the old events of the 80s and 90s when stock was the norm and custom was but a blip on the horizon. :( Even the people look different! :wink: Mike

Posted by: six-o-one - 25 November 2008 13:01:10
[quote=mrsherbie]Wow! great pics! I have never known much about that car. Very interesting though, but would'nt want to own it! :shock: a million mile beetle is not one most of us would exactly aspire to owning is it! I think I will take a total lack of a low mile cars history over million mile provenance! :lol: [/quote] I think you are missing the point a bit. He owned and loved his VW from new, for over 40 years. I'm sure he never wanted anyone else to own it either! If that's not the ultimate VW enthusiast then what is? :roll:

Posted by: six-o-one - 25 November 2008 13:01:10

[quote=mrsherbie]Wow! great pics! I have never known much about that car. Very interesting though, but would'nt want to own it! :shock: a million mile beetle is not one most of us would exactly aspire to owning is it! I think I will take a total lack of a low mile cars history over million mile provenance! :lol: [/quote] I think you are missing the point a bit. He owned and loved his VW from new, for over 40 years. I'm sure he never wanted anyone else to own it either! If that's not the ultimate VW enthusiast then what is? :roll:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 25 November 2008 18:32:45
ME:d And don't have a pop at my mate.

Posted by: mrsherbie - 25 November 2008 20:19:40
:lol: No you are completely right Malcolm! That was me doing the 'thinking one thing' but typing another' trick that I am skilled at :lol: It IS amazing, and just proves that it's true, beetles never die! even after you have dragged them dripping oil all around the world a few times! I was kind of thinking more, is it sad lonely and unloved imprisoned in a quiet little museum? or having a well earned rest! :shock: But what I wrote was...'if it came up for sale I doubt we would all be having a punch up over who should get it?! :lol: :d

Posted by: mrsherbie - 25 November 2008 20:19:40

:lol: No you are completely right Malcolm! That was me doing the 'thinking one thing' but typing another' trick that I am skilled at :lol: It IS amazing, and just proves that it's true, beetles never die! even after you have dragged them dripping oil all around the world a few times! I was kind of thinking more, is it sad lonely and unloved imprisoned in a quiet little museum? or having a well earned rest! :shock: But what I wrote was...'if it came up for sale I doubt we would all be having a punch up over who should get it?! :lol: :d

Posted by: Standard split - 25 November 2008 20:51:26
This car as we know is an oval dash split. Tony claimed mileage records back to 1950, and that his car was a prototype of the later style which was not seen until October 1952. Of course it could have had replacement everything if Tony claimed everything to have been replaced except the gear knob:d But maybe that was his dry sense of humour :?

Posted by: 55Kab - 25 November 2008 21:33:20
[quote=Mike Peckham]Even the people look different! :wink:[/quote] No, they just look normal!:wink: Glad you like the pics people. I just came across some I took at Camberg in 1991. Will scan and post on a separate thread if anyone wants to see them. Oh and for the record, I am a fan of customised (Resto/Cal/German-Look) VW's, am also a fan of stock vintage VW's, just not a fan of the 'life-style' people I was frightened looking at when I took the Cab to Action!!!:lol: :lol:

Posted by: 55Kab - 25 November 2008 21:33:20

[quote=Mike Peckham]Even the people look different! :wink:[/quote] No, they just look normal!:wink: Glad you like the pics people. I just came across some I took at Camberg in 1991. Will scan and post on a separate thread if anyone wants to see them. Oh and for the record, I am a fan of customised (Resto/Cal/German-Look) VW's, am also a fan of stock vintage VW's, just not a fan of the 'life-style' people I was frightened looking at when I took the Cab to Action!!!:lol: :lol:

Posted by: vintagevw - 27 November 2008 19:21:09
I think I was at the VW Action in 1991, one of my first oversees meetings! It was big those days.:beer:

Posted by: Dubster - 14 December 2008 14:30:21
I'd completely forgot about Rattletrap, I now remember reading about the car in VW Motoring during the eighties. The DVLA have the car down as a 1950, the museum doesn't have it SORNed either :d The vehicle details for 10 BXK are: Date of Liability 21 12 1994 Date of First Registration 02 03 1961 Year of Manufacture 1950 Cylinder Capacity (cc) 1192CC CO2 Emissions Not Available Fuel Type Petrol Export Marker Not Applicable Vehicle Status Unlicensed Vehicle Colour BLACK

Posted by: Dubster - 14 December 2008 14:30:21

I'd completely forgot about Rattletrap, I now remember reading about the car in VW Motoring during the eighties. The DVLA have the car down as a 1950, the museum doesn't have it SORNed either :d The vehicle details for 10 BXK are: Date of Liability 21 12 1994 Date of First Registration 02 03 1961 Year of Manufacture 1950 Cylinder Capacity (cc) 1192CC CO2 Emissions Not Available Fuel Type Petrol Export Marker Not Applicable Vehicle Status Unlicensed Vehicle Colour BLACK

Posted by: paulbugman - 24 January 2009 17:53:26
you think after doing all that work on it ,you could get some decent number plates done

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 24 January 2009 20:22:07
I have a feeling that this was at Stonor in 88! Im sure ive seen some pictures of it at the show with a big banner over it saying something about highest mileage beetle in existence! :?:

Posted by: 55Kab - 24 January 2009 21:45:23
[quote=54 Gertie]I have a feeling that this was at Stonor in 88! Im sure ive seen some pictures of it at the show with a big banner over it saying something about highest mileage beetle in existence! :?: [/quote] You got a good memory Will! I've deffo got pics of it like that somewhere. I'll scan 'em and post 'em up.

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 24 January 2009 21:48:42
[quote=55Kab] You got a good memory Will! I've deffo got pics of it like that somewhere. I'll scan 'em and post 'em up.[/quote] I want there, I want even born then!:lol: I just remember seeing a photo of a black split in 88 with a banner over it! Cant think where......:twisted:

Posted by: 55Kab - 24 January 2009 22:42:13
[quote=54 Gertie]I want there, I want even born then!:lol: Cant think where......:twisted: [/quote] WOW!:shock: Now I am feeling old:lol: :lol: Found the pics, it was indeed Stonor Park

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 24 January 2009 23:00:19
[quote=55Kab] WOW!:shock: Now I am feeling old:lol: :lol: Founds the pics, it was indeed Stonor Park[/quote] Hurry up and post them!:d :wink:

Posted by: Robin Allen - 25 January 2009 02:25:55
I just want to agree with those who say the current Rattletrap is a fake. If there's nothing left of the original car (not even the nut that used to hold the steering wheel!) it's time it was re-registered. The original 1950 car died years ago. I saw it before its accident too although I didn't get to see the chassis number, but I agree that the story Mr Levy used to tell about the "experimental" thing was a load of rubbish, or at least, didn't apply to this particular car. It was a Zwitter even before the accident. Isn't there a story about Abraham Lincoln's original yard broom that has only had 5 new heads and 3 new handles? If you change the chassis and body, it isn't the original anymore. (Sorry, this is a topic which winds me up)

Posted by: Robin Allen - 25 January 2009 02:25:55

I just want to agree with those who say the current Rattletrap is a fake. If there's nothing left of the original car (not even the nut that used to hold the steering wheel!) it's time it was re-registered. The original 1950 car died years ago. I saw it before its accident too although I didn't get to see the chassis number, but I agree that the story Mr Levy used to tell about the "experimental" thing was a load of rubbish, or at least, didn't apply to this particular car. It was a Zwitter even before the accident. Isn't there a story about Abraham Lincoln's original yard broom that has only had 5 new heads and 3 new handles? If you change the chassis and body, it isn't the original anymore. (Sorry, this is a topic which winds me up)

Posted by: GKL 7 - 25 January 2009 15:46:53
[quote=Robin Allen]I just want to agree with those who say the current Rattletrap is a fake. If there's nothing left of the original car (not even the nut that used to hold the steering wheel!) it's time it was re-registered. The original 1950 car died years ago. I saw it before its accident too although I didn't get to see the chassis number, but I agree that the story Mr Levy used to tell about the "experimental" thing was a load of rubbish, or at least, didn't apply to this particular car. It was a Zwitter even before the accident. Isn't there a story about Abraham Lincoln's original yard broom that has only had 5 new heads and 3 new handles? If you change the chassis and body, it isn't the original anymore. (Sorry, this is a topic which winds me up)[/quote] X2 Rattletraps history was always dubious.

Posted by: GKL 7 - 25 January 2009 15:46:53

[quote=Robin Allen]I just want to agree with those who say the current Rattletrap is a fake. If there's nothing left of the original car (not even the nut that used to hold the steering wheel!) it's time it was re-registered. The original 1950 car died years ago. I saw it before its accident too although I didn't get to see the chassis number, but I agree that the story Mr Levy used to tell about the "experimental" thing was a load of rubbish, or at least, didn't apply to this particular car. It was a Zwitter even before the accident. Isn't there a story about Abraham Lincoln's original yard broom that has only had 5 new heads and 3 new handles? If you change the chassis and body, it isn't the original anymore. (Sorry, this is a topic which winds me up)[/quote] X2 Rattletraps history was always dubious.

Posted by: 55Kab - 25 January 2009 22:34:46
[quote=54 Gertie]Hurry up and post them!:d :wink: [/quote] Here you go... [IMG]https://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/UK55Vert/UK%20VW%20Scene%20-%20HISTORY/7C-76985p1.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/UK55Vert/UK%20VW%20Scene%20-%20HISTORY/7C-76985p2.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/UK55Vert/UK%20VW%20Scene%20-%20HISTORY/7C-76985p3.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/UK55Vert/UK%20VW%20Scene%20-%20HISTORY/7C-76985p4.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: 55Kab - 25 January 2009 22:34:46

[quote=54 Gertie]Hurry up and post them!:d :wink: [/quote] Here you go... [IMG]https://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/UK55Vert/UK%20VW%20Scene%20-%20HISTORY/7C-76985p1.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/UK55Vert/UK%20VW%20Scene%20-%20HISTORY/7C-76985p2.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/UK55Vert/UK%20VW%20Scene%20-%20HISTORY/7C-76985p3.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/UK55Vert/UK%20VW%20Scene%20-%20HISTORY/7C-76985p4.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 25 January 2009 22:44:02
Brilliant pics! Yeah that is deffo Stonor!:d Is that pre or post accident?:wink:

Posted by: 55Kab - 26 January 2009 19:10:14
[quote=54 Gertie]Is that pre or post accident?:wink: [/quote] Pre accident. Pretty sure it was Stonor 87 as 88 was dull and I was there in 89 with my Cal-Look:wink:

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 26 January 2009 19:16:32
[img]https://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/UK55Vert/UK%20VW%20Scene%20-%20HISTORY/7C-76985p2.jpg[/img] Ooh, ooh, ooh!8) I have a feeling that the brownish ragtop in the top right of that photo may be our 55! She was at Stonor 87 and although she now has a beige ragtop, that is just painted over a black/purple cover. Ill have a better look!:d

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 26 January 2009 19:20:36
[quote=54 Gertie][img]https://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/UK55Vert/UK%20VW%20Scene%20-%20HISTORY/7C-76985p2.jpg[/img] Ooh, ooh, ooh!8) I have a feeling that the brownish ragtop in the top right of that photo may be our 55! She was at Stonor 87 and although she now has a beige ragtop, that is just painted over a black/purple cover. Ill have a better look!:d [/quote] Yeah, im sure it is!:lol: do you have to original scan or photo, just for better quality?:wink:

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 26 January 2009 19:20:36

[quote=54 Gertie][img]https://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/UK55Vert/UK%20VW%20Scene%20-%20HISTORY/7C-76985p2.jpg[/img] Ooh, ooh, ooh!8) I have a feeling that the brownish ragtop in the top right of that photo may be our 55! She was at Stonor 87 and although she now has a beige ragtop, that is just painted over a black/purple cover. Ill have a better look!:d [/quote] Yeah, im sure it is!:lol: do you have to original scan or photo, just for better quality?:wink:

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 26 January 2009 19:47:11
:wink: Excited!:wink:

Posted by: 55Kab - 26 January 2009 20:36:55
[quote=54 Gertie]Yeah, im sure it is!:lol:[/quote] Can certainly send you a higher res of the photo Will but I'm afraid to say I think that car was the famous Ragtop Oval PWP 8 that did the rounds at the time. Need to see in the photo I took of PWP 8 that day whether the other cars you can see are in the background.

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 26 January 2009 20:46:33
[quote=55Kab] Can certainly send you a higher res of the photo Will but I'm afraid to say I think that car was the famous Ragtop Oval PWP 8 that did the rounds at the time. Need to see in the photo I took of PWP 8 that day whether the other cars you can see are in the background. [/quote] That would be great! Your probably right but its worth a try!:wink: Cheers! Will

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 26 January 2009 23:16:47
Martin- great pics as usual. Whatever happened to PWP8 and its magical hubcaps?

Posted by: kdf38 - 27 January 2009 05:11:55
I'm frightened! You recognize a car from 1987 by its reg. nr? :shock: well,, it is a little like the story of when I found my 1947 for the 2nd time; so maybe not toooo scary... Mike [quote=55Kab] Can certainly send you a higher res of the photo Will but I'm afraid to say I think that car was the famous Ragtop Oval PWP 8 that did the rounds at the time. Need to see in the photo I took of PWP 8 that day whether the other cars you can see are in the background. [/quote]

Posted by: kdf38 - 27 January 2009 05:11:55

I'm frightened! You recognize a car from 1987 by its reg. nr? :shock: well,, it is a little like the story of when I found my 1947 for the 2nd time; so maybe not toooo scary... Mike [quote=55Kab] Can certainly send you a higher res of the photo Will but I'm afraid to say I think that car was the famous Ragtop Oval PWP 8 that did the rounds at the time. Need to see in the photo I took of PWP 8 that day whether the other cars you can see are in the background. [/quote]

Posted by: 55Kab - 27 January 2009 22:56:52
[quote=Rich Oakley]Martin- great pics as usual. Whatever happened to PWP8 and its magical hubcaps?[/quote] Tks Rich. Indeed, what happened to PWP 8 I wonder??? No details listed on the DVLA website so I would think the plate has been sold off as considering its condition 20 years ago as a full on concours car, I can't see it getting into a state of disrepair. More pics that I'll have to get a scanned!:wink:

Posted by: 55Kab - 27 January 2009 22:56:52

[quote=Rich Oakley]Martin- great pics as usual. Whatever happened to PWP8 and its magical hubcaps?[/quote] Tks Rich. Indeed, what happened to PWP 8 I wonder??? No details listed on the DVLA website so I would think the plate has been sold off as considering its condition 20 years ago as a full on concours car, I can't see it getting into a state of disrepair. More pics that I'll have to get a scanned!:wink:

Posted by: 55Kab - 27 January 2009 23:00:21
[quote=kdf38]I'm frightened! You recognize a car from 1987 by its reg. nr? :shock: [/quote] Hahahahahahha :lol: :lol: :lol: Of course Mike, old Bugs are so rare here it's not difficult. Actually, to tell the truth I was looking through all my pics of the Stonor show in 87 and came across PWP 8 before I found the shots of Rattletrap, so I'm sure the car in the background is PWP as that's the concours line up.

Posted by: 55Kab - 27 January 2009 23:00:21

[quote=kdf38]I'm frightened! You recognize a car from 1987 by its reg. nr? :shock: [/quote] Hahahahahahha :lol: :lol: :lol: Of course Mike, old Bugs are so rare here it's not difficult. Actually, to tell the truth I was looking through all my pics of the Stonor show in 87 and came across PWP 8 before I found the shots of Rattletrap, so I'm sure the car in the background is PWP as that's the concours line up.

Posted by: stu - 31 January 2009 16:36:27
who actually owns rattletrap now? after looking at the museum website it doesnt appear to be the museum..

Posted by: mrsherbie - 31 January 2009 17:25:56
Its for SALE! :shock: Thats a lot of 'cough' history, for ok money! :d Although I dont think I want it myself, because I feel it may not be completely 'og unwelded' ? :shock: Cool though! and looks like a real bargain compared to the ads for the 70 & 71 beside it :!: :lol: (Edited as no longer on UltraVW classifieds site now it is sold!)

Posted by: mrmagyar - 31 January 2009 17:26:53
Hi, If you follow this link and click on the picture of the Delorean you can see what is presumably old Rattletrap in the background. https://www.bentley.org.uk/#/motormuseumgallery/4525136549

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 31 January 2009 17:29:56
[quote]Highest mileage Beetle in the world. One owner, very original condition inside/out, dropped indicators, narrowed/lowered beams. Stored for 11 years in Bentley Motor Museum.[/quote] narrowed/lowered beams:shock: :wink: Very original (shame about the shell, chassis, engine....... :lol: Still, it is a cheap split, let alone a cheap [i]famous[/i] split!:wink:

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 31 January 2009 17:35:29
Here it is in the museum! Sorry about the bad picture! [img]https://i316.photobucket.com/albums/mm323/1303bitsforsale/Picture8.png?t=1233423252[/img]

Posted by: stu - 31 January 2009 21:24:38
ive just rang the cars current owner, someone on here has first refusual, wonder who it is.., if they dont buy it, i might..

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 31 January 2009 21:40:57
[quote=stu]ive just rang the cars current owner, someone on here has first refusual, wonder who it is.., if they dont buy it, i might..[/quote] Fair Play! It is personally not my piece of cake but the history behind it (the original:?: ) is very appealing!:d

Posted by: stu - 31 January 2009 21:46:44
the mystery person has till monday to buy it, or im off to bentleys on monday to have a look, pain in the arse as im sposed to be veiwing an unwelded oval 2moz.. :lol:

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 31 January 2009 21:50:46
Wonder who the mystery person is?:wink: If you can read this is it ............YOU?:lol: If when you go can you take some photos of it, would love to see some more pics of it!

Posted by: stu - 31 January 2009 21:55:08
[quote=54 Gertie]Wonder who the mystery person is?:wink: If you can read this is it ............YOU?:lol: If when you go can you take some photos of it, would love to see some more pics of it![/quote] lol, its not me, but ill take some pics & check it out if its not sold monday, :d

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 31 January 2009 21:56:52
[quote=stu] lol, its not me, but ill take some pics & check it out if its not sold monday, :d [/quote] Awesome! :d

Posted by: stu - 31 January 2009 22:14:16
im assuming rattletrap had an entire new bodyshell?, as opposed to the original being repaired?, who knows for definate?

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 31 January 2009 22:17:25
I would guess a new shell and chassis!:cry: I heard somewhere that the owner used to joke that the only original part was the gear knob! :wink: I cant see how you would go about repairing that shell?:?

Posted by: stu - 31 January 2009 22:29:45

[quote=54 Gertie]I would guess a new shell and chassis!:cry: I heard somewhere that the owner used to joke that the only original part was the gear knob! :wink: I cant see how you would go about repairing that shell?:? [/quote] i think the shell was to damaged & twisted to repair but i think they kept the original central spine of the chassis & put new floorpan halfs in, hence why its still got the same reg number

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 31 January 2009 22:31:02
[quote=stu] i think the shell was to damaged & twisted to repair but i think they kept the original central spine of the chassis & put new floorpan halfs in, hence why its still got the same reg number[/quote] True but they may have been a bit economical with the truth when speaking to the DVLA! :wink:

Posted by: JD - 31 January 2009 22:57:51

[quote=Robin Allen]I just want to agree with those who say the current Rattletrap is a fake. If there's nothing left of the original car (not even the nut that used to hold the steering wheel!) it's time it was re-registered. The original 1950 car died years ago. [/quote] Why on earth should it be re-registered? What does it matter to the DVLA that its not the car it once was? It´s not stolen the identity of another car thats on the road anywhere. There´s only one car with those numbers on it. The whole idea of having to SVA buggies is frankly laughable also. Its been perfectly alright since the sixties and now its suddenly not. Tell me a good reason why?? Nanny state. Burocracy gone mad.:evil: Why is this thread in PRE 53 anyway?:lol:

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 31 January 2009 23:59:07

[quote=JD] Why on earth should it be re-registered? What does it matter to the DVLA that its not the car it once was? It´s not stolen the identity of another car thats on the road anywhere. There´s only one car with those numbers on it. The whole idea of having to SVA buggies is frankly laughable also. Its been perfectly alright since the sixties and now its suddenly not. Tell me a good reason why?? Nanny state. Burocracy gone mad.:evil: Why is this thread in PRE 53 anyway?:lol: [/quote] Agreed! Just because of one small accident (involving a rather large crash!:wink: ) that is no reason for a piece of VW history to die!:d :wink:

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 01 February 2009 15:19:48

I remember reading about this car in vw motering ,and at the time got fed up of hearing about it.It is strange that this should crop up again as i was looking for an old magazine a few weeks ago and found a few features on it. I thought at the time i wonder where it is and didnt realise that Tony had passed away . The shell of that car was definitly replaced by Haselock after it was T boned by a truck although i do remember vw motering glossing over it. Personally i dont think it matters that it had a new shell ,if the backbone had been replaced my view would be different .This to me signifies what a Beetle is all about and that if you want to they can live forever. The question you have to ask is how much of your cars bodywork is truly original.Especially if it was a well used UK car . Long live Rattletrap:d [IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/Save0001.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: mrsherbie - 01 February 2009 19:41:16

[quote=JD] The whole idea of having to SVA buggies is frankly laughable also. Its been perfectly alright since the sixties and now its suddenly not. Tell me a good reason why?? Nanny state. Burocracy gone mad.:evil: [/quote] I disagree. 'cars' built from boxes of bits in someones garage, usually an amateur with little skill should be inspected for all round safety before being allowed on our roads. And here is just 1 very good reason why :cry: [url=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/4323665/Father-Nigel-Gresham-jailed-after-Land-Rover-crash-killed-his-four-children.html]man kills his 4 children in modified land rover[/url] A Chesil kit is only around 50% a beetle yet that is what is on most of their docs, and they are legally allowed to do that which I think is far too generous of the DVLA, I would happily accept the job to slap Q plates on all those tupperware lunchboxes if it were up to me! :lol: I think the DVLA are correct with the way they want each vehicle identified correctly to EXACTLY what IT IS. [quote=Sunroof53] Long live Rattletrap:d [IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/Save0001.jpg[/IMG] [/quote] Back to Rattletrap, I agree with sunroof53 , its interest lies in the story far more than the metal :beer: And anyway, there is no debate, as clearly from this pic ^ Rattletrap is in fact a '[b]1950 zwitter post 55 oval split[/b]' :? :lol: But what does it matter! It has survived one way or another, and long may it live on! I cant wait to see it out and about this year!! :d :beer: :d

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 01 February 2009 21:22:07
Here is the text with Tonys storys about the car. [IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/Save.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/Save0002.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 01 February 2009 21:37:03
My eyes hurt! :shock: That makes a very interesting read!:wink:

Posted by: stu - 01 February 2009 21:52:28
im hoping to veiw it 2moz, if its not sold, but i think the museum its kept in is only open weekends! :roll:

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 01 February 2009 21:57:49
[quote=54 Gertie]My eyes hurt! :shock: That makes a very interesting read!:wink: [/quote] :lol: Sorry forgot to add 'please zoom to view'

Posted by: JD - 01 February 2009 22:10:58

[quote=mrsherbie] I disagree. 'cars' built from boxes of bits in someones garage, usually an amateur with little skill should be inspected for all round safety before being allowed on our roads. And here is just 1 very good reason why Crying or Very Sad [/quote] Very big difference between changing the body of your Beetle for a glass fibre shell on a sometimes shortenend pan than a car built from boxes of bits. I have no confidence in the SVA anyway, since it seems far more concerned with making sure the car has fog and reversing lights and that theres nothing pointy on it than it does with real safety issues of design and construction. Lots of totally standard old cars couldn´t pass it if they were subjected to it, mainly due to dangerous pointy bits like non impact bumpers. Perhaps they should all be banned. Perhaps they will be. When I read things like this... "Lincoln Crown Court heard Gresham had created a "Frankenstein" car that was kept on the road only by "cannibalising" parts from others."... I get worried. This is what we all do. The only difference is that this guy was clearly clueless. Sorry to go off on an off topic rant!

Posted by: mrsherbie - 02 February 2009 10:15:42

[quote=54 Gertie]My eyes hurt! :shock: [/quote] MINE TOO!! I cant read that! it must be sunroof53's funny idea of punishment! :lol: [quote=JD] When I read things like this... "Lincoln Crown Court heard Gresham had created a "Frankenstein" car that was kept on the road only by "cannibalising" parts from others."... I get worried. This is what we all do. The only difference is that this guy was clearly clueless. Sorry to go off on an off topic rant![/quote] I also find this very chilling, far more detail on the cars faults and the guy and his business (modifying Landrovers!) in this film. Landrover or VW, there are people EXACTLY like this working in the vw scene too.. [url=https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/7788278.stm]news report[/url] [url=https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/humber/7773645.stm]'driving too fast' court report[/url]

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 03 February 2009 13:44:46
I have been told that the car is now sold. Did somebody on here buy it?

Posted by: mrsherbie - 03 February 2009 14:31:46
I hope so!! :d

Posted by: stu - 03 February 2009 17:31:32
i received a call today to say it was sold to the guy who had first refusal, it was someone that knew tony for years, dunno who that is, i thought it was you rich :lol:

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 03 February 2009 18:03:31

Just realised where I recognised Rattletrap from......This VW book that I have has for ages!:wink: There is a photo of it back on on the rear cover, but sadly nothing more inside! :cry: Does anyone have a picture of this illusive prototype dashboard? Becasue in the few pictures I have seen of it the dash has allways just looked oval to me!:wink: [img]https://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk10/1303bits4sale/IMG_0080.jpg?t=1233684166[/img] [img]https://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk10/1303bits4sale/ratt.jpg?t=1233684198[/img]

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 03 February 2009 18:38:11
[quote=stu]i received a call today to say it was sold to the guy who had first refusal, it was someone that knew tony for years, dunno who that is, i thought it was you rich :lol: [/quote] Not me, I didn't know the guy. I hope we get to see it at a few shows this year.

Posted by: stu - 03 February 2009 20:18:23

[quote=54 Gertie]Just realised where I recognised Rattletrap from......This VW book that I have has for ages!:wink: There is a photo of it back on on the rear cover, but sadly nothing more inside! :cry: Does anyone have a picture of this illusive prototype dashboard? Becasue in the few pictures I have seen of it the dash has allways just looked oval to me!:wink: [img]https://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk10/1303bits4sale/IMG_0080.jpg?t=1233684166[/img] [img]https://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk10/1303bits4sale/ratt.jpg?t=1233684198[/img][/quote] the cars a zwitter, it has an early oval dashboard with the aluminum starter button & no trim round the ashtray & a split rear window :d

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 03 February 2009 20:22:28
[quote=stu] the cars a zwitter, it has an early oval dashboard with the aluminum starter button & no trim round the ashtray & a split rear window :d [/quote] Yes but for example in that article they state that the car is something of a "prototype", not just a Zwitter! I am sure that it probably is just a zwitter but I was wondering if anyone had any other ideas?:wink: :?

Posted by: stu - 03 February 2009 20:23:47
[quote=Rich Oakley] Not me, I didn't know the guy. I hope we get to see it at a few shows this year.[/quote] anyone on here know who the new owner is then?, be good to see it at a few shows

Posted by: stu - 03 February 2009 20:26:42
[quote=54 Gertie] Yes but for example in that article they state that the car is something of a "prototype", not just a Zwitter! I am sure that it probably is just a zwitter but I was wondering if anyone had any other ideas?:wink: :? [/quote] maybe it was just a zwitter but made 2 years earlier than the other zwitters, even though the tailights are late 55 :lol:

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 03 February 2009 20:28:36
[quote=stu] maybe it was just a zwitter but made 2 years earlier than the other zwitters, even though the tailights are late 55 :lol: [/quote] True, true! But I douubt it to be honest!:wink: :lol: Also does anyone know the exact year of this car? Some books say 51, some places say 50 and other even say 52, making it a zwitter!:( :d :wink: :?

Posted by: stu - 03 February 2009 20:37:32
[quote=54 Gertie] True, true! But I douubt it to be honest!:wink: :lol: Also does anyone know the exact year of this car? Some books say 51, some places say 50 and other even say 52, making it a zwitter!:( :d :wink: :? [/quote] i think its late 52 or early 53

Posted by: GKL 7 - 03 February 2009 22:23:17
Only one thing that puzzles me thru' all this what possible reason would Tony have had to falsify the year of his cars production.

Posted by: VW Stan - 03 February 2009 23:33:48
In the August 73 Safer Motoring there's their first 'ancient beetles register' list and Tony states that it's a 1951 and the chassis number is 1-0433703 (Which makes it early 53!) :wink:

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 03 February 2009 23:40:45

[quote=VW Stan]In the August 73 Safer Motoring there's their first 'ancient beetles register' list and Tony states that it's a 1951 and the chassis number is 1-0433703 (Which makes it early 53!) :wink: [/quote] Dont suppose you would mind looking for our 55? In the history an old owner says that he sent off for her to be in the ancient beetles register but he could not get hold of the august edition! She would be down as a 54 (they were a bit off!:wink: ) Registration SDV 551, brown The owner would be a Mr Perham! Would really appreciate it if you would have a look for me! :d Thanks!

Posted by: Mike Peckham - 04 February 2009 09:03:09

[quote='50 Karmann]Only one thing that puzzles me thru' all this what possible reason would Tony have had to falsify the year of his cars production.[/quote] Because the car he had in the seventies and beyond was an early '53 but the car that started the mileage claim was a '50 or '51 that he brought back from Germany. At some point between 1951 and 1970 the original cars identity was passed to a later model to continue the high mileage claim. The story about it being a prototype was probably fabricated to explain its being a zwitter built in 1951. That's my guess anyway... :? Mike

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 04 February 2009 09:12:26
[quote='50 Karmann]Only one thing that puzzles me thru' all this what possible reason would Tony have had to falsify the year of his cars production.[/quote] He was an odd guy.

Posted by: Standard split - 04 February 2009 09:17:28
Maybe Rattletrap is on its way to the Wolfsburg museum having been bought by VW.:? It says near the end of the magazine article on the previous page that Tony says there is a place ready for it there :wink:

Posted by: JD - 04 February 2009 09:20:39
[quote=Standard split]Maybe Rattletrap is on its way to the Wolfsburg museum having been bought by VW.:? It says near the end of the magazine article on the previous page that Tony says there is a place ready for it there :d [/quote] Must be true then.:d

Posted by: RoRoVw - 04 February 2009 09:30:34

[quote=VW Stan]In the August 73 Safer Motoring there's their first 'ancient beetles register' list and Tony states that it's a 1951 and the chassis number is 1-0433703 (Which makes it early 53!) :wink: [/quote] I have a September 1975 copy of Safer Motoring which contains 'List No5' of the Ancient Beetles Register. This is the earliest edition I seem to have. However it gives the dates of the magazines in which the four earlier parts of the Register appeared as being: List 1 - August 1974 List 2 - September 1974 List 3 - October 1974 List 4 - December 1974 There were obviously even later lists in subsequent issues. I wonder where all these cars are now?

Posted by: JD - 04 February 2009 09:51:36

[quote=Mike Peckham] Because the car he had in the seventies and beyond was an early '53 but the car that started the mileage claim was a '50 or '51 that he brought back from Germany. At some point between 1951 and 1970 the original cars identity was passed to a later model to continue the high mileage claim. The story about it being a prototype was probably fabricated to explain its being a zwitter built in 1951. That's my guess anyway... :? Mike[/quote] I´d bet your right on the mark with this. Would explain a lot - a "prototype" that no-one else has ever heard of for example.

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 04 February 2009 11:37:41
[quote=RoRoVw] ..... I wonder where all these cars are now?[/quote] I know :wink:

Posted by: Standard split - 04 February 2009 11:52:37

[quote][/quote]Because the car he had in the seventies and beyond was an early '53 but the car that started the mileage claim was a '50 or '51 that he brought back from Germany. At some point between 1951 and 1970 the original cars identity was passed to a later model to continue the high mileage claim. The story about it being a prototype was probably fabricated to explain its being a zwitter built in 1951[quote][/quote] To have notched up enough miles to have the idea of replacing the first worn-out car with another must have been into the 1970's at a guess. But back then, it must have been difficult to find a replacement black split-window Beetle anywhere other than Germany:? As we know it's so much easier today to find these cars with the internet to use, but even now the car is usually abroad somewhere so you've got the hassle of getting it back:?:

Posted by: Mike Peckham - 04 February 2009 13:29:30

[quote=Standard split] As we know it's so much easier today to find these cars with the internet to use, but even now the car is usually abroad somewhere so you've got the hassle of getting it back:?: [/quote] Before the internet we had Exchange and Mart, even in the eighties there was at least one oval window beetle in there most weeks usually selling for between £50 - £100. Split window Beetles showed up too but at over £400 they were out of my price range. :wink: Mike

Posted by: 55Kab - 04 February 2009 15:28:23

[quote=RoRoVw]I wonder where all these cars are now?[/quote] I think all this talk proves that a good on-line data base of preferably but not exclusive to, UK registered Vintage VW's is needed. Would be fab to look at a website with Beetle's, Buses, Ghia's and T3's from say pre-53, 53-57, 57-64 and 64-67 depicting known or unknown cars, last sighting, where known > photos, original colour, chassis/engine numbers etc and owners story's, perhaps a car a month? Could even include those that got away like my Southampton scrapyard Oval. Anyone fancy setting one up with me?

Posted by: 55Kab - 04 February 2009 15:30:28
[quote=Standard split]As we know it's so much easier today to find these cars with the internet to use[/quote] Certainly helpful but it can still be limited. I've been trying to track down the 60 RHD Cabrio I sold a few years ago. It's listed on the DVLA website but that's as far as I can get!

Posted by: Standard split - 04 February 2009 15:32:03

[quote][/quote]Before the internet we had Exchange and Mart, even in the eighties there was at least one oval window beetle in there most weeks usually selling for between £50 - £100. Split window Beetles showed up too but at over £400 they were out of my price range.[quote][/quote] I remember trawling through the Expand and Fart – it was never easy to get a split-window Beetle. It's easier today but not a breeze either. Ads for these were very scarce, some were still abroad anyway and description was not always accurate and there were no pictures either. Ovals were common though, but they were sold in the UK of course. And as for getting a split in a certain colour…[-x

Posted by: 55Kab - 04 February 2009 15:35:44
Found a couple more taken on that day at Stonor which incidentally was 1986, not 87 as I'd previously posted. [IMG]https://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/UK55Vert/UK%20VW%20Scene%20-%20HISTORY/10BXKStonor86p1.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee352/UK55Vert/UK%20VW%20Scene%20-%20HISTORY/10BXKStonor86p2.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 04 February 2009 15:38:38

[quote=55Kab] I think all this talk proves that a good on-line data base of preferably but not exclusive to, UK registered Vintage VW's is needed. Would be fab to look at a website with Beetle's, Buses, Ghia's and T3's from say pre-53, 53-57, 57-64 and 64-67 depicting known or unknown cars, last sighting, where known > photos, original colour, chassis/engine numbers etc and owners story's, perhaps a car a month? Could even include those that got away like my Southampton scrapyard Oval. Anyone fancy setting one up with me? [/quote] Sounds great! I've often thought about how useful and interesting it would be to have some sort of registry, but I wouldnt have a clue how to set one up!:wink: :lol:

Posted by: 55Kab - 04 February 2009 16:01:28
[quote=54 Gertie]but I wouldnt have a clue how to set one up!:wink: :lol: [/quote] I've got all the ideas Will, just need someone young who knows HTML!

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 04 February 2009 16:10:00

[quote=55Kab] I've got all the ideas Will, just need someone young who knows HTML![/quote] HTM What?:wink: Im pretty good with computers but when it comes to code and hosting a website it is waaayyyy past me!:lol: But love the idea and would love to help, probably more with ideas however!:lol: :wink: What are you thinking? A big long list with for instance a photo, reg number and year, then a link that you can click on to find out more about that specific car? Also I suppose a search function for if you are trying to look up a specific a car! I would just quite happily sit there all day scanning through them, looking at pictures!:wink: Just think, a new online "ancient Beetles" register!:d :wink: 8)

Posted by: Mike Peckham - 04 February 2009 16:16:42

[quote=Standard split] I remember trawling through the Expand and Fart – it was never easy to get a split-window Beetle. It's easier today but not a breeze either. Ads for these were very scarce, some were still abroad anyway and description was not always accurate and there were no pictures either. Ovals were common though, but they were sold in the UK of course. And as for getting a split in a certain colour…[-x [/quote] I have little doubt that the illustrious Mr Levy would have thought nothing of hopping across the Channel to the Fatherland to look out a replacement black split in the days when they were rather more plentiful. :wink: Mike

Posted by: Standard split - 04 February 2009 16:25:27
[quote][/quote]I have little doubt that the illustrious Mr Levy would have thought nothing of hopping across the Channel to the Fatherland to look out a replacement black split in the days when they were rather more plentiful. [quote][/quote] If that's so, he was a bit stuck for choice as he came back with apparently the wrong model:!:

Posted by: Mike Peckham - 04 February 2009 16:26:48
[quote=Standard split] If that's so, he apparently was a bit stuck for choice as he came back with the wrong model:!: [/quote] But he made up a good story to disguise the fact! :d Mike

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 04 February 2009 16:28:49
[quote=Mike Peckham] But he made up a good story to disguise the fact! :d Mike[/quote] Yep! Prototype my arse!:wink: :lol: I think that until we can get a good look around Rattletrap at a show some day, we will never know! Even if it is not officially the original, there is still a good story behind it in my opinion!:wink: :d

Posted by: Standard split - 04 February 2009 16:54:50
[quote][/quote]I think that until we can get a good look around Rattletrap at a show some day, we will never know! Even if it is not officially the original, there is still a good story behind it in my opinion![quote][/quote] I agree. Its certainly become a legend in vintage VW circles. I remember it appearing on Blue Peter and later on the BBC London News programme :wink:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 04 February 2009 18:26:55

[quote=Mike Peckham] Because the car he had in the seventies and beyond was an early '53 but the car that started the mileage claim was a '50 or '51 that he brought back from Germany. At some point between 1951 and 1970 the original cars identity was passed to a later model to continue the high mileage claim. [/quote] YES,BUT WHY. No financial reward,people around the scene know the business,so NO kudos.(as they did in the 70's) What possible gain was made.

Posted by: JD - 04 February 2009 18:35:52
[quote='50 Karmann] YES,BUT WHY. No financial reward,people around the scene know the business,so NO kudos. What possible gain was made. [/quote] Fame? Guiness book of records entry? Who knows. He was an odd guy.

Posted by: GKL 7 - 04 February 2009 18:38:10
[quote=JD] Fame? Guiness book of records entry? Who knows. He was an odd guy.[/quote] No point JD, if you know the truth, it's pointless. Very strange.

Posted by: RoRoVw - 04 February 2009 18:57:44
He probably just liked being the centre of attention. From reading the article posted on here it's obvious that he was used to being 'economical with the truth'. For instance - he pushed Rattletrap by himself for 10 miles along the hard shoulder of the M1. I don't think so!!

Posted by: GKL 7 - 04 February 2009 19:07:12
I guess you can tell a story so often,even when it's not true, you start to believe it yourself. I don't like talking ill of someone who is not able to defend themselves thru' one reason or another. So on this subject i will say no more.

Posted by: Mike Peckham - 04 February 2009 19:40:39

[quote='50 Karmann]I guess you can tell a story so often,even when it's not true, you start to believe it yourself. I don't like talking ill of someone who is not able to defend themselves thru' one reason or another. So on this subject i will say no more.[/quote] You're right, I feel uncomfortable about it myself but I formed my opinions about Rattletrap and Mr Levy long before he died, and those opinions haven't changed. He certainly created a legend in Rattletrap but I reckon it took at least three cars to do it. :wink: Mike 8)

Posted by: Standard split - 04 February 2009 20:05:41

[quote][/quote]Cool though! and looks like a real bargain compared to the ads for the 70 & 71 beside it [quote][/quote] Someone has done very well. :shock: Whether If you think it's a Rattletrap, Deathtrap or Claptrap, there's no denying the car is a legend, and would look better in your drive than any 60s and later VW. It was stripped and rebuilt by Haselock, (bet that wasn't cheap) so we know it's free of most if not all rot. It's probably far from original by now. But a nice looking VW with a retrimmed interior. The DeLuxe aluminum trim around the split window really highlights it, (shame you have to have a DeLuxe Zwitter to get this the best of all Beetle rear windows). On top of that unlike most old cars, the more miles you put on it the better, and if anything gets damaged so what, just replace the replaced part again. Shove whatever engine you want in it – the original's long gone – and clock up those miles:!: A great daily driver with a long UK history and a nice UK registration number. I expect there's a mountain of history with it too, and it will always be a puller at shows, and only two previous owners 8)

Posted by: Standard split - 24 February 2009 14:24:59

Amazingly enough, it looks as though Rattletrap was repaired after its big smash with a truck, and not rebodied as some think :shock: The pics of the 're-borne car' if studied show what must be a replacement later style small window door, August 1955 - 1964, (small latch and no inside ribbing) on what was the badly damaged side, but still the pre August 1955 ribbed door on the undamaged (driver's) side. Also, you can see where the headlining has been cut back toward the rear to allow the roof to be straightened/welded:!: Given that Tony Levy had the wreck hauled all the way back to England from Mexico, and that the car had such a huge amount of skilled repair work I would say there is something in the record mileage claim:wink: [ATTACH]2615[/Attach] [ATTACH]2616[/Attach] [ATTACH]2617[/Attach] [ATTACH]2618[/Attach]

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 24 February 2009 15:42:56
Vw motoring did document some of the work but i cant find the issue.Another shell or at least part shell was used from memory.The mileage claims are disputed because he claimed he had records from 51 ,but the car was not made for at least another year:!:

Posted by: Standard split - 24 February 2009 16:08:56
It would seem that all the passenger (right hand side) panels and the bonnet were replaced as far as the body goes. I vaguely remember the VWM articles on this. I imagine from looking at the crash images, that the roof was straightened out. Makes for a very interesting car though. Possible that the chassis (1950) is earlier than the body (1952/53) all the same :?

Posted by: Mike Peckham - 24 February 2009 18:52:54

Even if Rattletraps mileage claim was correct, Albert Kleins Bug did a couple of hundred thousand more miles and they were as well if not better documented. Tony tried to claim that Kleins mileage was not so well documented and then when he found that it was, he claimed that the miles Klein had covered in his Beetle hadn't been as purposeful as Rattletraps so didn't count!:? However you look at it, Rattletrap is a very interesting car and certainly a big player in the history of the beetle - but the highest mileage VW it aint. :wink: Mike

Posted by: Standard split - 24 February 2009 19:46:18
Does anybody know Rattletrap's present mileage:?: Shame it's spent the last decade going nowhere. Is Albert Klein's car still running around :?:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 24 February 2009 20:35:57
Got some half answers John. The last mileage for records was taken from Alberts car on the 25.01.93. No entries since then so would appear to now be off the road. The milage then was 1,442,044.As it is recognised as the record holder,then Rattletraps milage must be less.Vague but all i could find out.

Posted by: Standard split - 24 February 2009 21:30:43
That's interesting. It's a shame if both these old war horses are off the road though:( Presumably Rattletrap is the oldest of the two. In contrast my '49 hasn't even managed 18,000 miles 8)

Posted by: GKL 7 - 24 February 2009 21:57:36
[quote=Standard split] Presumably Rattletrap is the oldest of the two. [/quote] Alberts car was/is a '63.

Posted by: Standard split - 25 February 2009 09:05:41
Makes Rattletrap the most desirable though George I think. Being a split it looks more the part of a mega-mile car than a regular rectangular rear window.:wink:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 25 February 2009 20:03:51
You know John,although i wouldn't purchase the car,i think £4.5K is more than a fair price for Rattletrap. The price of splits:roll: that's not bad for a reproduction:wink:

Posted by: Standard split - 25 February 2009 20:38:50

[quote][/quote]The price of splits that's not bad for a reproduction[quote][/quote] Not sure about the reproduction comment George :? Its fair to say that even Rattletrap is more original than many of the heavily restored KdFs and earlier VWs restored from basket cases and wrecks :!: The legendary aspect and colourful history of Rattletrap alone make it a good buy at that price – and unlike other splits – it's good to use this car as much as possible – more miles. The registration is worth a bit too I would think:shock: Its sold :twisted:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 25 February 2009 20:54:26

[quote=Standard split]Not sure about the reproduction comment George [/quote] Joking apart about reproductions, John. Rattletrap is dubious,allways has been. Must be 30 years since i first saw it and the story seemed "iffy" back then. Pre accident. But like i said £4.5K,whats that nowadays,you could have some great fun with Rattletrap on that money. What if it is only half Split..... it's half price:lol:

Posted by: Standard split - 25 February 2009 21:25:21
[quote][/quote]you could have some great fun with Rattletrap[quote][/quote] Someone's going to have great fun with it – that's for sure :d

Posted by: stu - 25 February 2009 21:51:46

[quote=Standard split]Amazingly enough, it looks as though Rattletrap was repaired after its big smash with a truck, and not rebodied as some think :shock: The pics of the 're-borne car' if studied show what must be a replacement later style small window door, August 1955 - 1964, (small latch and no inside ribbing) on what was the badly damaged side, but still the pre August 1955 ribbed door on the undamaged (driver's) side. Also, you can see where the headlining has been cut back toward the rear to allow the roof to be straightened/welded:!: Given that Tony Levy had the wreck hauled all the way back to England from Mexico, and that the car had such a huge amount of skilled repair work I would say there is something in the record mileage claim:wink: [/quote] rattletrap received a whole new body shell, the original was to damaged to repair, there was a complete feature on the resto/rebuild in vwmotoring if anyone wants to check..

Posted by: Standard split - 26 February 2009 09:29:26

[quote][/quote]rattletrap received a whole new body shell, the original was to damaged to repair, there was a complete feature on the resto/rebuild in vwmotoring if anyone wants to check.[quote][/quote] If that were correct it would not explain the older style door on one side and a later type on the repaired side. Then there is the cut back headlining clearly visible in the pictures with the remainder of the headling undisturbed around the rear window. So we know the split window has not been welded in. We also know that a genuine zwitter donor car would hardly likely to have been found and destroyed for its body shell :?

Posted by: JD - 26 February 2009 11:45:57

[quote=Standard split]rattletrap received a whole new body shell, the original was to damaged to repair, there was a complete feature on the resto/rebuild in vwmotoring if anyone wants to check. If that were correct it would not explain the older style door on one side and a later type on the repaired side. Then there is the cut back headlining clearly visible in the pictures with the remainder of the headling undisturbed around the rear window. So we know the split window has not been welded in. We also know that a genuine zwitter donor car would hardly likely to have been found and destroyed for its body shell :? [/quote] You´re grasping at shadows here. It [i][b]was[/b][/i] rebodied. The doors can be unbolted. The headliner comes out too. I expect Tony wanted to retain as many original parts as possible in the rebuild to complete the illusion of it still being the same car. Why do you say that a Zwitter was "destroyed" for its body? Doesn´t look destroyed to me. Check here if in any further doubt. Post 15... https://www.volkszone.com/VZi/showthread.php?t=533741&page=2

Posted by: Standard split - 26 February 2009 13:13:00

Not so:!: This picture very clearly shows the old headlining UNDISTURBED still around the rear window running down around the side rear panels. It is also clear in this and other pictures that it has been stripped back from the roof – to allow the repair, panel beating and maybe welding of the damaged central/side roof area. If this was a complete body from another car the head lining would either been intact, or completely replaced. Tony was anxious to retain as much of his original car as possible. I remember seeing it at Stonor after the rebuild and Tony showing me what had been done to save his car :d To fit a later door would raise door mechanism issues. The striker plate would have to change to take the new latch. This of course can be done, but its not a straight screw-on and replace job. I think here is a retaining plate for the striker plate inside the quarter panel to get at, and the moulding area is different where the plate sits. However as the car has had all later panels on the right-hand side, the later door mated-up perfectly with the later quarter panel. And so Rattletrap still has its old door and panels on the left! And as for removing and refitting an ancient decaying frail headliner – are you serious! And YES it would also mean a rare zwitter was dismantled and lost to provide a replacement body (which didn’t happen). More likely that a post ‘55 – pre 65 car was cut-up to provide the replacement right-hand panels and bonnet. A complete replacement body was not used – why would you have the odd door senario that I have descrided and half a headlining. Maybe I’m talking nonsense and Mr Levy was a complete liar (NOT my opinion). But the pictures tell their own story.:wink: [ATTACH]2620[/Attach]

Posted by: pre67vw - 26 February 2009 13:53:49
I think we should leave the topic of whether or not the shell was replaced unless you KNOW it was or it wasn't. Just because someone read something once doesn't make it a fact, magazine articles are quite often inaccurate. I would think it would be fairly obvious looking at the underside of the repaired areas whether or not new sections were laid in or not.

Posted by: JD - 26 February 2009 14:03:39
If you don´t beleive the word of the wife of the guy who did the "reconstruction" (chooses word carefully!) and was there, and saw what happened, then I don´t know what else I can tell you. I shall say no more Rob.

Posted by: Standard split - 26 February 2009 14:24:23

[quote][/quote] the word of the wife of the guy who did the "reconstruction"[quote][/quote] She may have seen the body shell of the donor car before it was cut up for the parts to repair Rattletrap. No disrespect to the ladies, and certainly not to our MrsHerbie, but the average woman (and a lot of men) aren't that interested and so not greatly observant of these issues. Plus the car was repaired rather a long time ago. i've had as much experience as anyone with these old cars and know what I can see. I also know that VWM magazine was sometimes a little economical with accuracy. I expect many of us will beg to differ on Rattletrap's pedigree. But all the debate, stories and features that Rattletrap seems to attract is part of what makes it such a special and one of the most well-known Beetles. Let's hope it gets out of the museum and turns its wheels again :beer:

Posted by: pre67vw - 26 February 2009 15:00:02

[quote=JD]If you don´t beleive the word of the wife of the guy who did the "reconstruction" (chooses word carefully!) and was there, and saw what happened, then I don´t know what else I can tell you. I shall say no more Rob.[/quote] It's not that I don't believe it. The internet is in some ways the same as magazines - as soon as something is presented as fact then it makes its way into history as being fact. A lot of people seem to be believing the new shell story because of a magazine article and are now presenting it here as fact, and yet they weren't there and have maybe never even seen the car. I prefer my facts to have proof :d

Posted by: mrsherbie - 26 February 2009 17:28:02
I agree, I dont believe magazines or the internet without seeing real proof or being told by someone who I know has seen something first hand. But in this case I have to agree with JD, the only 2 people I can have complete faith in their judgment are Robin and Mrs Terrys Beetles because they both know this car in the metal from the past.

Posted by: Standard split - 26 February 2009 18:45:08
[quote][/quote]the only 2 people I can have complete faith in their judgment are Robin and Mrs Terrys Beetles[quote][/quote] Perhaps then they can explain why the supposedly replaced shell is made-up of different year parts with half a headlining:?: I think the replacement shell claim is total nonsense :!:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 26 February 2009 18:53:55
If this was all magazine featured....Why hasn't one of the believers come forward with a scan of the said article. Wouldn't solve much,but i'm just surprised no one has come up with the feature. More important than this .....who owns it now.

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 26 February 2009 19:00:40
[quote='50 Karmann] More important than this .....who owns it know.[/quote] I have a feeling that it will be a [i]collector[/i] who will put it in his garage, never drive it and it will completely fall off the VW radar! :roll: :wink:

Posted by: Standard split - 26 February 2009 19:14:11

[quote][/quote]If this was all magazine featured....Why hasn't one of the believers come forward with a scan of the said article. Wouldn't solve much,but i'm just surprised no one has come up with the feature.[quote][/quote] It does seem odd that a photographic record wasn't made of such a big repair to such a famous car, I must admit:? [quote][/quote]I have a feeling that it will be a collector who will put it in his garage, never drive it and it will completely fall off the VW radar! [quote][/quote] Do people do things like that :shock:

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 26 February 2009 19:21:28
[quote=Standard split] Do people do things like that :shock: [/quote] Well, yes! It has been known and a lot of early cars are in collections and are never seen, annoyingly! :wink:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 26 February 2009 19:32:21
[quote=Standard split] Do people do things like that :shock: [/quote] I can think of one or two John:wink:

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 26 February 2009 19:46:03

[quote=Standard split]the only 2 people I can have complete faith in their judgment are Robin and Mrs Terrys Beetles Perhaps then they can explain why the supposedly replaced shell is made-up of different year parts with half a headlining:?: I think the replacement shell claim is total nonsense :!: [/quote] You need to make a phone call to Terrys Beetle services .The truth is out there and not difficult to find:!:

Posted by: stu - 26 February 2009 20:16:56
i do chuckle listening to the children on volkszone talking complete bollocks

Posted by: Standard split - 26 February 2009 20:18:58

[quote][/quote]You need to make a phone call to Terrys Beetle services .The truth is out there and not difficult to find[quote][/quote] Only pictures taken during the repair/rebuild can prove anything. Word of mouth does not, especially after so many years, with people's memories of the event becoming blurred and confused by the 'Rattletrap's a fake theories' going around. Looking at the car which is still very real, and hardly touched since the rebuild does clearly tell a story of an extensive body repair. It does not indicate that it has a whole new body. One can only judge by the facts laid out before them. It is really not conceivable that another split-window Beetle would be broken-up for its body shell. And remember, back then splits were harder to come by. An early Oval would be an obvious sacrifice at the time, and then weld Rattletrap's back window in, that's how a few zwitters have come to exist and some of their owners probably don't even know:!: But back to Rattletrap's rear window, it still has the old headlining around it, into the rear quarter panels and into the roof, so we know it hasn't been disturbed. This old cloth would disintegrate if removed and could not be put back to look as it does. Nearby welding of course would destroy it. It's a fantastic show car for somebody that loves some history with their rare car, it will always be popular at VW and non-VW car shows. Sold well below its true value I think. :wink:

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 26 February 2009 20:19:01
[quote=stu]i do chuckle listening to the children on volkszone talking complete bollocks [/quote] Were you banned because you "voiced" this opinion? :lol:

Posted by: stu - 26 February 2009 20:32:06
[quote=54 Gertie] Were you banned because you "voiced" this opinion? :lol: [/quote] haha no, but theres alot of people on there utterly clueless with regard to vws

Posted by: JD - 26 February 2009 21:23:39

[quote=Standard split]You need to make a phone call to Terrys Beetle services .The truth is out there and not difficult to find Only pictures taken during the repair/rebuild can prove anything. Word of mouth does not, especially after so many years, with people's memories of the event becoming blurred and confused by the 'Rattletrap's a fake theories' going around. Looking at the car which is still very real, and hardly touched since the rebuild does clearly tell a story of an extensive body repair. It does not indicate that it has a whole new body. One can only judge by the facts laid out before them. It is really not conceivable that another split-window Beetle would be broken-up for its body shell. And remember, back then splits were harder to come by. An early Oval would be an obvious sacrifice at the time, and then weld Rattletrap's back window in, that's how a few zwitters have come to exist and some of their owners probably don't even know:!: But back to Rattletrap's rear window, it still has the old headlining around it, into the rear quarter panels and into the roof, so we know it hasn't been disturbed. This old cloth would disintegrate if removed and could not be put back to look as it does. Nearby welding of course would destroy it. It's a fantastic show car for somebody that loves some history with their rare car, it will always be popular at VW and non-VW car shows. Sold well below its true value I think. :wink: [/quote] You sound like you are trying to convince yourself. It speaks volumes that you claim to know so much more about all this than the people who actually did the work. They´ve probably forgotten what work was done on that famous car. Yes, very plausible. I bet thats right. I´m sure I have a post accident photo somewhere of the banana shaped remains with both seats nearly on the same side of the car.

Posted by: JD - 26 February 2009 21:24:38
[quote=stu] haha no, but theres alot of people on there utterly clueless with regard to vws [/quote] Wow - harsh! Maybe they just like them?

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 27 February 2009 18:20:24

[quote=stu]i do chuckle listening to the children on volkszone talking complete bollocks [/quote] Oh dear.[-x .People like these cars for all kinds of reasons and some are new to the scene .You dont have to be an expert to own one or have an opinion .VZI is an exellent hub for all aspects of the scene and a great place to learn ,talk and share experience about the cars we all are passionate about .Those "[u]chidren[/u] " as you called them might the people that save another car .Its sites like VZI and here that help them acheive it. We are somtimes missinformed about our cars as there are a lot of "experts",but it takes a [u]real adult [/u]to address this and not comments like the one you made.

Posted by: stu - 27 February 2009 19:34:08

[quote=Sunroof53] Oh dear.[-x .People like these cars for all kinds of reasons and some are new to the scene .You dont have to be an expert to own one or have an opinion .VZI is an exellent hub for all aspects of the scene and a great place to learn ,talk and share experience about the cars we all are passionate about .Those "chidren " as you called them might the people that save another car .Its sites like VZI and here that help them acheive it. We are somtimes missinformed about our cars as there are a lot of "experts",but it takes a [u]real adult [/u]to address this and not comments like the one you made. [/quote] you sound like you need to get laid mate seriously lol

Posted by: stu - 27 February 2009 19:39:53
[quote=JD] Wow - harsh! Maybe they just like them?[/quote] maybe

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 27 February 2009 19:53:36
[quote=stu] you sound like you need to get laid mate seriously lol [/quote] No Just banging:p you to rights:lol:

Posted by: stu - 27 February 2009 20:38:33
[quote=Sunroof53] No Just banging:p you to rights:lol: [/quote] you still sound like you need to get laid :wink:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 27 February 2009 20:45:53
........... [ATTACH]2623[/Attach]

Posted by: mrsherbie - 27 February 2009 21:37:25

[quote=54 Gertie] Were you banned because you "voiced" this opinion? :lol: [/quote] :lol: Most of the mods there need putting down too, you forgot that bit so I will say it for you :lol: :beer: JD watch out, like Picard, you WILL get assimilated! and before you know it you will be wearing hoodies and will completely lose the ability to 'spell' :shock: :lol: [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg_(Star_Trek)]BORG[/url] [img]https://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h52/aeolean/borg.jpg[/img]

Posted by: mrsherbie - 27 February 2009 22:06:56
Or here.. :d [img]https://www.edinphoto.org.uk/0_C/0_cabinet_prints_greenfield_four_men_with_pipes.jpg[/img]

Posted by: mrsherbie - 27 February 2009 22:12:38
Hang on, I just realised there are no women in that pic! :lol: [img]https://www.onzone.ca/images/timeline/1917_women_vote.jpg[/img]

Posted by: pre67vw - 27 February 2009 22:18:43
Lets keep on topic and leave out the personal comments.

Posted by: lifeintheslowlane - 27 February 2009 22:18:49
[quote=mrsherbie]Or here.. :d [img]https://www.edinphoto.org.uk/0_C/0_cabinet_prints_greenfield_four_men_with_pipes.jpg[/img][/quote] There you go again, belittling members of the HVWOC...you'll be old one day.:? ...and as for the kids on VZi:roll: I never get a wave from kids in slammed Beetles when I'm driving my Ghia. I'm sure they don't have a clue what it is.

Posted by: stu - 27 February 2009 22:19:27

[quote=mrsherbie] :lol: Most of the mods there need putting down too, you forgot that bit so I will say it for you :lol: :beer: JD watch out, like Picard, you WILL get assimilated! and before you know it you will be wearing hoodies and will completely lose the ability to 'spell' :shock: :lol: [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg_(Star_Trek)]BORG[/url] [img]https://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h52/aeolean/borg.jpg[/img][/quote] i told 1 of the mods once that his trimuph dolomite was one of the ugliest cars ever made, i got banned instantly LOL

Posted by: Dubster - 28 February 2009 09:56:30
[quote=stu] i told 1 of the mods once that his trimuph dolomite was one of the ugliest cars ever made, i got banned instantly LOL[/quote] Really? That was more than a bit harsh on you though, even though there are other cars uglier than Dolomites!

Posted by: stu - 28 February 2009 12:13:49
[quote=Dubster] Really? That was more than a bit harsh on you though, even though there are other cars uglier than Dolomites![/quote] i didnt put it quite like that, i just said i fail to see what you see in a car that ugly, it was a genuine question! as i still dont get it :d

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 28 February 2009 12:58:54
Right, [b]on topic!!!!![/b] :wink: Has anyone seen that this is for sale in Ultra VW this months?:wink: :idea:

Posted by: mrsherbie - 28 February 2009 14:25:38
Not yet, but I bet its new owner is one very happy guy, because I bet the poor ex-owners phone is ringing off the hook about now!

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 28 February 2009 15:13:37
Does anyone know who bought it ? i will search the loft again today for more Rattletrap features .Theres some mileage in this thread yet.No pun intended:wink:

Posted by: stu - 28 February 2009 19:12:45
i had 2nd refusual, i was ready to buy it!, the guy who bought it knew tony & his wife for years..

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 28 February 2009 20:21:27
I have found the write up in vw motoring which gives pictures and details of the repairs. i will scan them asap.Someone on here will eat there words :twisted:

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 28 February 2009 22:06:25
Hope you can read them :shock: This may help https://magnifier.sourceforge.net/ .Note plan B. Could still be open for disscussion for those in denial:wink: [IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/rattle4.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/rattle6.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 28 February 2009 23:01:36
Great! But my eyes hurt! :lol: But im still confused? Was it a complete new shell or did they cut just a bit and weld it onto the original?:? Sorry if im missing something obvious!:lol: :wink: :roll: :d

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 28 February 2009 23:43:10

[quote=54 Gertie]Great! But my eyes hurt! :lol: But im still confused? Was it a complete new shell or did they cut just a bit and weld it onto the original?:? Sorry if im missing something obvious!:lol: :wink: :roll: :d [/quote] Well i have to say it is a little suspicious that they should choose to spray that bit above the rear window, as i have a feeling they grafted that bit in to a doner oval shell and the weld would have been clear from underneath.

Posted by: JD - 01 March 2009 00:25:37
[quote=54 Gertie] But im still confused? Was it a complete new shell or did they cut just a bit and weld it onto the original?:? [/quote] Quoting from the article... "...Rattletraps NEW BODY is aquiring coat upon coat..." How´s that crow taste?:lol: :lol:

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 01 March 2009 03:38:04

Slightly off topic ,But when i was looking through the 90-91 vw motorings i had ,i picked up a Sept 89 copy and found this [IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/originalregTFM794.jpg[/IMG] Thinking to myself that was a nice rhd oval ,i then notice its a sunroof model and green.A quick read of the text and i realise its my car with its original reg no:shock: .This is one thing that has eluded me about the car especially as the previous owners (after steve parker)had tried to find this out.Steve clearly sold the number on before he sold it to Brett. With the original reg i stand a chance of finding the history ,or at least where it was first registered .If it wasnt for this thread(now on topic) i may never have found it.:d

Posted by: Etzhold1 - 01 March 2009 06:33:06
that floor pan is post 54 !:roll: the engine is a late 30 ps engine :roll: the transaxle maybe even later !:roll: Front axle is oval area !:roll: That body is not the same body that was crashed !:oops: the rear window is welded in ! :roll: If you ask me but you don't:wink: , this hole ratle C(t)rap story is crap and bassed on cheating !:evil: Guido:wink:

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 01 March 2009 10:12:59

[quote=Etzhold1]that floor pan is post 54 !:roll: the engine is a late 30 ps engine :roll: the transaxle maybe even later !:roll: Front axle is oval area !:roll: That body is not the same body that was crashed !:oops: the rear window is welded in ! :roll: If you ask me but you don't:wink: , this hole ratle C(t)rap story is crap and bassed on cheating !:evil: Guido:wink: [/quote] Good eyes!:wink: I can see that they have sprayed with black primer, any areas that have been welded together or bare metaled like for example the heater baffles underneath the rear seat. They have done the same, as others have said above the rear window where you would weld a new clip in![-x The chassis is (i think) and as Guido says of the later type! If im not mistaken post 55 year model due to the more forward location of the heater control knob! :roll: :wink: :lol: I wont pretend that I can identify an oval beam from split one...:oops: :lol: So yes, a car that I would not touch with a barge pole! Well, not at the price that I have a feeling they would want for a piece of "history":wink:

Posted by: pre67vw - 01 March 2009 10:38:49

I'm sorry, but I still don't see anything I would consider proof of a new shell. The black above the rear window could quite as easily be that it was a new roof put on from the rear window forward? [quote=JD] Quoting from the article... "...Rattletraps NEW BODY is aquiring coat upon coat..." How´s that crow taste?:lol: :lol: [/quote] Still not convinced I'm afraid, I would say magazines use this phrase any time a lot of work has been completed. It sounds to me like the article is deliberately vague though.

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 01 March 2009 10:49:30
Any chance of a slightly higher resolution scan? Im sure we could tell more if we could zoom in on things like striker plates and the under bonnet area! :wink: It just pixelates whenever I zoom in!

Posted by: JD - 01 March 2009 12:34:50

[quote=pre67vw]I'm sorry, but I still don't see anything I would consider proof of a new shell. The black above the rear window could quite as easily be that it was a new roof put on from the rear window forward? Still not convinced I'm afraid, I would say magazines use this phrase any time a lot of work has been completed. It sounds to me like the article is deliberately vague though.[/quote] It does sound deliberately vague - not wanting to drop Tony in it I imagine. The whole thing totally reads like they re-shelled it though. Paraphrased, it reads... "They looked at it, wondered how on earth they were going to be able to fix it and decided on "plan B", which [i]somehow[/i] heavily involved a new body. Which explains how they´d fixed it up so [i]quickly[/i] when we (the intrepid reporters) arrived". The other reference to a [i]new[/i] body and saying that this bodyshell "[i]has become [/i]Rattletrap black". Pretty conclusive, or? I remember the wrecked car and it was BAD. They might have got some decent panels off the side away from the accident damage, but the rest was kippered. Dash, inner structure, roof, just destroyed.

Posted by: Etzhold1 - 01 March 2009 12:56:38
[quote=54 Gertie] I wont pretend that I can identify an oval beam from split one...:oops: :lol: [/quote] Gertie , from now on, you can !!!! [ATTACH]2624[/Attach] [ATTACH]2626[/Attach]

Posted by: GKL 7 - 01 March 2009 16:02:24
Rattletrap is beginning to sound like that Johnny Cash song about the car made up from a part from every year over twenty years.:roll:

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 01 March 2009 18:47:10

[quote=54 Gertie]Any chance of a slightly higher resolution scan? Im sure we could tell more if we could zoom in on things like striker plates and the under bonnet area! :wink: It just pixelates whenever I zoom in! [/quote] I tried 1200dpi but could not upload to photobucket as the file is bigger than 100mb.I could email it to you but dont have your address on the profile you cant attach files via the profile email tab.

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 01 March 2009 18:48:46
[quote=Sunroof53] I tried 1200dpi but could not upload to photobucket as the file is bigger than 100mb.I could email it to you but dont have your address on the profile.[/quote] PM'ed! :d

Posted by: tman - 01 March 2009 23:11:14
[quote=Sunroof53] I tried 1200dpi but could not upload to photobucket as the file is bigger than 100mb.I could email it to you but dont have your address on the profile you cant attach files via the profile email tab.[/quote] 100mb?! Most email systems won't entertain files that big. Make sure you are saving it in a compressible format like jpg or gif.

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 02 March 2009 00:32:36

[quote=tman] 100mb?! Most email systems won't entertain files that big. Make sure you are saving it in a compressible format like jpg or gif. [/quote] Thanks ,they were bmp files .In the mean time i cropped the picture of the shell ,cleaned the fluff off my scanner to. The VW38 https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=340552 they found in lithuania has more original parts than this. I just hope whoever bought it realised what he was buying and bought it for its novelty value rather than thinking he had a genuine piece of history. The story of this car to me has more value than the car itself .I mean you could never sit in the car and think wow, this is the car that did all those miles and was featured in all those magazines .Its a bit like all the Herbies you see at the shows .I never used to take much notice of them until i saw a real one at Stanford hall last year.Sitting in a replica of anything is just not the same . i've scanned some more but are taking an age to upload:!: Cant get that attach tab to work as it comes up with page cannot be displayed. [IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/reattle1200dpishell.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 02 March 2009 02:09:16
Deathtrap? [IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/rattlecarveup.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/rattlecarveup2.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 02 March 2009 04:38:17
[IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/rattlecrash.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/rattlecrash1.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/mishap120010001-1.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: JD - 02 March 2009 08:26:15
Ooof! Thats about as I remember it. Quite a mess.

Posted by: pre67vw - 02 March 2009 08:49:53
Nah, a good body shop would buff that right out :lol:

Posted by: Standard split - 02 March 2009 14:39:06

New centre section roof added judging by the welds. Man in the picture has not gotten over to spraying the other welds above the door pillars that can be seen. These show that the rear window has not been added to the body, so it does not have a new shell [-x Well all this alone makes Rattletrap a very special car, I doubt that some would bother putting that amount of effort into saving a crushed KdF :beer: [ATTACH]2639[/Attach]

Posted by: JD - 02 March 2009 15:01:04

[quote=Standard split]New centre section roof added judging by the welds. Man in the picture has not gotten over to spraying the other welds above the door pillars that can be seen. These show that the rear window has not been added to the body, so it does not have a new shell [-x Well all this alone makes Rattletrap a very special car, I doubt that some would bother putting that amount of effort into saving a crushed KdF :beer: [/quote] You amaze me. :lol: Those "welds" over the door are where the headliner clamp strips go. Looks like they´ve been ground off. But wait - how can it be that the headliner isn´t in the car??!? That could never possibly survive being removed and reinstalled. Apparently.:lol:

Posted by: Mike Peckham - 02 March 2009 15:32:03
Standard split; You're either clutching at straws or on the wind-up. I think the latter :wink: Mike

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 02 March 2009 15:32:26

[quote=Standard split]New centre section roof added judging by the welds. Man in the picture has not gotten over to spraying the other welds above the door pillars that can be seen. These show that the rear window has not been added to the body, so it does not have a new shell [-x Well all this alone makes Rattletrap a very special car, I doubt that some would bother putting that amount of effort into saving a crushed KdF :beer: [/quote] Your in Denial.New shell old rear window.The pictures show the car was a basket case before it was even smashed .Take a look at those heater channels .There not even attached to the floor .The shell is clearly being cut up .I like the comment in the article that says "its a good job it was solid steel".:shock:

Posted by: pre67vw - 02 March 2009 15:37:38

Putting the split window into a later shell would certainly have been much easier and much less work than replacing the side in the original shell. I still don't see anything I would consider 'proof' to support either story though. I'd like to see either the original shell with the side cut out, or the new shell with the rear window cut out. I'm leaning towards the new shell theory, but only due to the lack of detail in the article - I kind of think that if it had some amazing bodywork done to the original shell they'd want to show it off a bit - but if they'd cheated then they'd want to be vague about it.

Posted by: pre67vw - 02 March 2009 15:40:01
[quote=JD] Those "welds" over the door are where the headliner clamp strips go. Looks like they´ve been ground off. [/quote] Why grind them off? it's not a standard?

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 02 March 2009 15:44:53
[quote=pre67vw] Why grind them off? it's not a standard?[/quote] I was going to say it didnt have a full healiner after the work but cant find the bit where i saw it.had to edit

Posted by: Standard split - 02 March 2009 16:00:15

[quote][/quote]Those "welds" over the door are where the headliner clamp strips go. Looks like they´ve been ground off.[quote][/quote] Why grind them off:!: Why, today does the car have an incomplete old headlining. This was not a re-body. The headliner clamps have been ground away to facilitate/make the repairs on the bent roof. If it were a straight body shell change these clamps would not need be touched, so why would they be, leaving no fixture for the headlining :? This is the best quote on the whole of this thread (page 7) from Pre 67 himself: [quote][/quote]I think we should leave the topic of whether or not the shell was replaced unless you KNOW it was or it wasn't. Just because someone read something once doesn't make it a fact, magazine articles are quite often inaccurate. I would think it would be fairly obvious looking at the underside of the repaired areas whether or not new sections were laid in or not.[quote][/quote] And followed by this quote: [quote][/quote]It's not that I don't believe it. The internet is in some ways the same as magazines - as soon as something is presented as fact then it makes its way into history as being fact. A lot of people seem to be believing the new shell story because of a magazine article and are now presenting it here as fact, and yet they weren't there and have maybe never even seen the car. I prefer my facts to have proof [quote][/quote] I'm sure that its the original repaired body shell, and you JD, don't – that's it [-x

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 02 March 2009 16:04:35

Posted by: JD - 02 March 2009 16:09:53
Argh! Damn! He used the wagging finger smiley on me!! Urgh!! (Clutches chest in overly melodramatic manner...) I´m telling Rob on you! No idea why those strips would be ground off. But why weld there even if you were working on the roof?

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 02 March 2009 16:14:53
I think the clamping strip is still there and hole for interior light is visible on the big picture ,previous page .Should a zwitter/1950 prototype shell:wink: have the light there.I thought they had them over the split window.i need to check.

Posted by: pre67vw - 02 March 2009 16:22:20
It's so annoying when a quick look over the car would sort the argument out.

Posted by: pre67vw - 02 March 2009 16:25:40
[quote=Sunroof53]What about the interior light ,or is that the other side ?they would have filled it on a later shell. [/quote] Interesting, in the large image it looks like you can see the interior light hole at the top. This isn't the side that got hit, so should it have that hole if that was part of the original shell? I can't say I know my zwitter details that well. :oops:

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 02 March 2009 16:27:50
[quote=pre67vw] Interesting, in the large image it looks like you can see the interior light hole at the top. This isn't the side that got hit, so should it have that hole if that was part of the original shell?[/quote] Sorry i just edited my post so the quote wont make much sense to anyone else.

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 02 March 2009 16:30:54
[quote=pre67vw] Interesting, in the large image it looks like you can see the interior light hole at the top. This isn't the side that got hit, so should it have that hole if that was part of the original shell? I can't say I know my zwitter details that well. :oops: [/quote] first rectangular light in october 52

Posted by: pre67vw - 02 March 2009 16:32:47
[quote=Sunroof53] first rectangular light in october 52[/quote] OK, so that proves nowt then :?

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 02 March 2009 16:39:57
I am not so sure even looking at the car would be proof unless you stripped the paint off.i think the pictures say it all .Is Baz haselock still in buisness?

Posted by: pre67vw - 02 March 2009 16:45:55
[quote=pre67vw] OK, so that proves nowt then :? [/quote] or.. is it an indication that the side was taken from a rhd car and the interior light hole welded up?

Posted by: Standard split - 02 March 2009 16:48:17
[quote][/quote]No idea why those strips would be ground off. But why weld there even if you were working on the roof?[quote][/quote] Exactly. You wouldn't need to work on the roof of a 'new' shell. The original shell had to have the roof cut around :wink: And of course zwitters had no light above the split window :wink:

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 02 March 2009 16:53:10
[quote=pre67vw] or.. is it an indication that the side was taken from a rhd car and the interior light hole welded up? [/quote] I dont think they swapped the light for left and right cars.

Posted by: JD - 02 March 2009 16:53:51
[quote=Standard split] The original shell had to have the roof cut around :wink: [/quote] So where are the other welds then?

Posted by: pre67vw - 02 March 2009 17:09:08
OK, I'm calling timeout on this one. I'm locking the thread. If anyone finds PROOF then PM me and I'll unlock it again

Posted by: pre67vw - 10 March 2009 20:23:20

Received these from Sunroof53 a little while back, but only just got around to adding them to the thread... It's pretty clear that it's a replacement body... [img]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/carveup12000002.jpg[/img] [img]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/flash1200.jpg[/img] [img]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/End.jpg[/img] [img]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/End1-1.jpg[/img] [img]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/End10001-1.jpg[/img]

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 10 March 2009 20:26:23
Thanks Rob:beer:

Posted by: Standard split - 11 March 2009 20:12:10

[quote=pre67vw]Putting the split window into a later shell would certainly have been much easier and much less work than replacing the side in the original shell. I still don't see anything I would consider 'proof' to support either story though. I'd like to see either the original shell with the side cut out, or the new shell with the rear window cut out. I'm sorry, but I still don't see anything I would consider proof of a new shell.[quote][/quote] So what's changed with these new pages Rob, we still can't see the 'new' shell :!: Check this bit of copy on page 61: …the search was on for a suitable body – [b]it didn't have to be perfect, but capable of supplying the main shell, which could be repaired as requested[/b], and to which [b]doors and other components could be added[/b] as necessary… I still think that a certain amount of Rattletrap's original body (mainly driver's side rear and full back up into roof) were grafted into the donor shell. This for instance explains the car having the later type door and mechanism on the smashed side, and the older pre'55 style door and mechanism on the undamaged side. I've never believed that the whole original shell is still with the car – it was too rotten and crushed in places. But it's not a completely new shell – not an oval shell with just the window grafted in the back, and certainly not a complete shell from another zwitter :twisted:

Posted by: pre67vw - 11 March 2009 21:15:53

The text says 'the body, he reckoned, was beyond economical repair and we'd be better off using another. So the search was on for a suitable body...' Clearly another body was used as you wouldn't cut the body you're trying to restore into bits. Also, using only parts from the donor body to repair the original would make the statement 'beyond economical repair' incorrect, so it had to be largely donor body. So I guess it comes down to the definition of 'new shell'? It probably wasn't a case of swapping the new body in for the old with a rear window swap, probably more likely to have been a real frankenstein body. Interesting to see what else had been replaced in the cars history... the engine, the gearbox, the chassis, the interior, the front suspension :lol: It sounds like Tony was very happy with what was done though, bringing his black beetle back to life when he thought he'd never drive it again - regardless of what was replaced. Was it the same car after the repairs? I kind of think it was, because the car was a workhorse, when something wore out or broke it was replaced, why should the body be any different?

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 11 March 2009 21:25:12
[quote=pre67vw] Was it the same car after the repairs? [/quote] Yes!:wink: It lost its original chassis spine long ago, but I would have called it the same car! Now it has had a new body, I would call it by the same car!:wink: Even though as Tony apparently used to say that the only original part was the gear knob and no metal work is from the original car!:lol:

Posted by: Standard split - 11 March 2009 21:40:13

[quote=54 Gertie] Yes!:wink: Now it has had a new body, I would call it by the same car!:wink: : [/quote] Well, [b]partly[/b] new body. But I think we're all more or less in agreement. Regardless however, the whole Rattletrap history is really something. I agree – in a way its really just the same car rolling along – fantastic :d The smash was a good thing for Rattletrap it would seem. All the rotten metal gone, with what would have been a real expensive professional rebuild done. Yet another interesting chapter in its history. Definitely worth more than it was advertised at, just for the legend alone. The spirit of Rattletrap lives on :beer:

Posted by: stu - 12 March 2009 16:09:24
and still no one knows whos bought it!...

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 12 March 2009 17:39:20
I doubt we will see the new owner on here .He was a friend of Tonys.

Posted by: stu - 12 March 2009 19:58:32
[quote=Sunroof53]I doubt we will see the new owner on here .He was a friend of Tonys.[/quote] yeh i no lol, thats why i missed out on it :cry:

Posted by: JD - 13 March 2009 14:34:04
So it was a new body after all. I thought so. Wonder what bits they did keep?

Posted by: stu - 13 March 2009 15:30:44
[quote=JD]So it was a new body after all. I thought so. Wonder what bits they did keep?[/quote] none lol, except the chassis tunnel minus the floorpan halfs

Posted by: Standard split - 13 March 2009 15:59:34
Drivers side door and rear quarter panel, back section up thru the rear window and up into the roof to the point of damage. All this stuff was cut from the wrecked shell and welded into the donor (probably oval) shell. Obvious as Tony wanted to keep as much of the original body as he could. This was not a straight body shell swap :evil:

Posted by: Standard split - 13 March 2009 19:15:55
Is Rattletrap going to become the 'highest mileage' topic on this forum :?: Its certainly 'clocked-up' a lot of views and posts:wink:

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 14 March 2009 00:21:05

I found a 1978 copy of vw motoring and it had a list of cars that had done over 100,000 .Rattletraps original chassis no(the floor in the pics above was not the original according to the article) was listed with its milelage at the time .There were also many other familiar cars (MRT 308 )and lots of ovals.Maybe a topic for another thread is to see how many of them are still around Especially for 55kab who is doing a register.Having the nunber plates, you could easily find out if they have survived. Still cant believe Standard split is in denial about the body:roll:

Posted by: JD - 14 March 2009 12:14:28

I am wondering if they used an Oval body though? Would have been a lot easier to to find one. Looks like a really solid car now at any rate. I think any of us would be happy to knock about in a car like that, regardless of its long and severely checkered history. [quote=Sunroof53] Still cant believe Standard split is in denial about the body:roll: [/quote] Me either!Still, he´s entitled to his opinion.

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 14 March 2009 17:39:02

I agree, it was a real bargain with the restoration work .Sounds like it wasnt used much after its reconstruction .Good that its gone to a good home though .Although i am no hater of modified cars i really would hate to see rattletrap cal looked. I do think they used an oval body or at least most of it ,even if some of the rear section was used to make it a split its mostly from a different car.The important thing to me is that there was no deceipt about what was done .Tony new it wasnt the same car, but to him it didnt matter .Its hard to let go of life long sentiment and i think that was the case for Tony.:beer:

Posted by: JD - 14 March 2009 18:18:16
I think that about hits the nail on the head. I imagine Tony just wanted to have what he had before the accident, or as near to it as he could get. Like anyone would I suppose. I doubt he was really all that concerned about originality, not to the same extent as some of the restorers are at least. Tony had a different agenda after all.

Posted by: Standard split - 16 March 2009 08:14:21

[quote=Sunroof53] Still cant believe Standard split is in denial about the body:roll: [/quote] Standard Split considers the body to have been a donor shell (oval window), with as much as possible of Rattletrap's built into it, not just a window swap:!: [quote=Sunroof53] I do think they used an oval body or at least most of it ,even if some of the rear section was used to make it a split its mostly from a different car. [/quote] Make your mind up Sunroof53 :wink:

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 16 March 2009 11:01:11
[quote=Standard split] Make your mind up Sunroof53 :wink: [/quote] I was trying to be diplomatic .Clearly i failed.:Now, wheres that head banging smiley gone :wink:

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 16 March 2009 11:32:27
[quote=Sunroof53] I was trying to be diplomatic .Clearly i failed.:Now, wheres that head banging smiley gone :wink: [/quote] Not quite the right sort of head banging is it? :lol: [img]https://www.clipartof.com/images/emoticons/xsmall2/1963_headbanger_playing_an_electric_guitar.gif[/img]

Posted by: Standard split - 16 March 2009 12:00:00
[quote=pre67vw] so it had to be largely donor body. So I guess it comes down to the definition of 'new shell'? It probably wasn't a case of swapping the new body in for the old with a rear window swap, probably more likely to have been a real frankenstein body. [/quote] I'm not alone :d

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 16 March 2009 14:09:47

Think Pre67 said "its down to your interpretation of a new body"and weather its made up of 50 parts from different cars or just two, in my opinion its a new or reconstruted shell. From the last article that was posted ,even if i ignore the text ,the most they could of used was the boot floor and the area leading up to the rear window and possibly up to the B post on the passenger side which would of course would explain the different door (i am taking your word that the catches are different ,i cant see myself in photo)That is the most positive i can be using the articles as a guide(some wishful thinking as well).Everything forward of that i personally think would have to have been replaced with either one other shell or bits from others .Thats also repairing the bits they are clearly cutting off in the photo and of course ignoring the quote that Baz Haselock made about the doner body carrying the [u]main[/u] part of the shell.I just dont think they would have gone to all that trouble to save the boot floor when they had a doner shell. You know it makes sense .just take deep breaths and let go.You didnt buy it did you?:?

Posted by: Standard split - 16 March 2009 14:49:26

[quote=pre67vw] so it had to be largely donor body. So I guess it comes down to the definition of 'new shell'? It probably wasn't a case of swapping the new body in for the old with a rear window swap, probably more likely to have been a r[b]eal frankenstein body[/b]. [/quote] "Mary Shelley's Frankenstein showing on a DVD near you – Tony Levy's Frankensplit on show at a museum in Sussex :p Back end of the body, apart from the right-hand (passenger side) rear quarter and all lower area (heater channels) from the original corpse. Front end is all from another corpse. And so Rattletrap is back from the dead. Eat your heart out Herbie – Daddy's back" :twisted: Interesting to know about the dash though :?

Posted by: GKL 7 - 16 March 2009 18:33:26
This is doing my head in, Just ban him Rob,just ban him:lol:

Posted by: Standard split - 16 March 2009 18:53:50
Phew, just making sure a ban hasn't been made :!: Don't anybody have nightmares about Frankensplit coming for you :lol:

Posted by: stu - 16 March 2009 22:15:08
has anyone noticed that the new bodyshell now has chrome trim round the ashtray & a handle to open it... & the original rattletrap doesnt, that makes this shell 1954 on, so the rear window is defo a graft...

Posted by: JD - 16 March 2009 22:42:02
[quote=stu]has anyone noticed that the new bodyshell now has chrome trim round the ashtray & a handle to open it... & the original rattletrap doesnt, that makes this shell 1954 on, so the rear window is defo a graft...[/quote] I await the explanation for this with baited breath.:lol:

Posted by: Standard split - 17 March 2009 14:32:31

[quote=stu]has anyone noticed that the new bodyshell now has chrome trim round the ashtray & a handle to open it... & the original rattletrap doesnt, that makes this shell 1954 on, so the rear window is defo a graft...[/quote] It is no surprise that Frankensplit, er Rattletrap has received the dash from the donor body judging by the state of damage and decay at the front of the original shell. However, I do not see how having the later dash then makes it a straight window swap :? It can be clearly seen on the VW Motoring image reproduced here that the front has been cut away at the windscreen pillars, with the back being carefully lifted away for re-use. The back of the original body was used as much as possible being built into the donor shell. We know from earlier in this thread that the headliner grip along the top door openings was ground away, which is of course because the old and new roof halves were welded together from left to right 8) [ATTACH]2724[/Attach]

Posted by: GKL 7 - 17 March 2009 18:43:05
Maybe it was too heavy for them,so they cut it in two to enable it to be more easily removed:lol: C'mon John it's all just hearsay until we find someone who was actually involved with the rebuild.(note: i said rebuild,'cos that ain't no restoration)

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 17 March 2009 18:49:44

I am really beginning to think you bought it .It would explain your denial.Dont worry i'd be pissed off as well if i had bought a Zwitter only to find it was a Hacked oval.:roll: Everthing forward of the black spray above the rear rear window is doner.It was probably just the easiest way to make the oval shell into a split [IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/reattle1200dpishell.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/rattlecarveup2.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: Standard split - 17 March 2009 19:10:46
Mmm, but there's the headliner gripper missing along the door opening with shiny grind/repair marks:? Why would this be so on a complete untouched shell. You're kidding yourself Sunroof53 :!: I remain unconvinced on this window swap theory – and it is just a theory [-x

Posted by: pre67vw - 17 March 2009 19:23:02
This is going nowhere again... locked until further notice :?

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 17 March 2009 19:31:17
No retreat No surrender:!: The black spray is covering the join for the photo.As i said before the boot floor and drivers rear quarter up to the b post could be original .The pictures are backing up the text in the article.Have you read the whole article ?They are even joking about it being a different car .

Posted by: Standard split - 01 September 2009 21:43:24

Well, for all you disbelievers who said Rattletrap is merely now an Oval-window with a Split-window welded in the back – he's not :twisted: The poor, tired, over used, well abused and generally knackerd but still faithful Rattletrap really is a bit of a 'Frankensplit'. But don't worry you disbelievers, Frankensplit won't be coming after you – he's locked-up somewhere in London. It's not so much Rattletrap the Beetle, more like Rattletrap the Beetles, at least four Beetles in there I'd say :twisted: Maybe he should be named the 'Fab Four' or the John, Paul, George and Ringo Beetle:lol: Rattletrap does certainly look 'Fab' – well at a bit of a distance. One of the clearest welds is seen behind the dash (pictured) which is from yet another car, and it would seem and not part of the mythical Oval-shell that is claimed by the non-believers. The best bit is that RATTLETRAP LIVES ON :!: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: [ATTACH]3491[/Attach]

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 02 September 2009 08:11:37
Did you take any photos of the whole car ?it would be good to have a recent photo for this thread and give the whole thing some positive closure.Everthing that can be said has been ,its up to the individual on how they percieve a new shell. One thing i think we all agree is that Rattletrap is quite a story and one that anyone who has had a life long passion for these cars can identify with.:beer:

Posted by: Standard split - 11 September 2009 22:35:41

[quote='50 Karmann] Now your're convinced about that one John. What info do you need to persuade you "Rattletrap" is a fake.:lol: [/quote] Some people will swear that black is white, others will swear a Split is an Oval :evil: As mentioned previous – Rattletrap's body is not an Oval shell with simply a Split window welded in. The dash has been put in to the damaged Split shell. I've shown the join. The original dash being badly creased on the right by the truck that hit it. A new shell would not have had the dash touched.:wink:

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 12 September 2009 16:38:47
[quote=Standard split] The dash has been put in to the damaged Split shell. I've shown the join. The original dash being badly creased on the right by the truck that hit it. A new shell would not have had the dash touched.:wink: [/quote] Unless the doner parts were righthand drive .The photo of the dash looks pre restoration .

Posted by: Standard split - 14 September 2009 10:15:20
[quote=Sunroof53] Unless the doner parts were righthand drive .The photo of the dash looks pre restoration .[/quote] Too many joins for one new shell. This is still very much the old car repaired and straightened.:wink: There is a nice write-up on Rattletrap in the new (October) Volksworld. Yep, they're sure its a '518)

Posted by: 55Kab - 14 September 2009 13:22:22
Can't someone track down Barry Haselock? Surely he'll be able to provide the answer.

Posted by: JD - 14 September 2009 13:28:23
[quote=55Kab]Can't someone track down Barry Haselock? Surely he'll be able to provide the answer. [/quote] I thought Terrys did it? I had the chance to ask a while ago, but didn´t think of it.

Posted by: 55Kab - 14 September 2009 13:48:06
[quote=JD]I thought Terrys did it?[/quote] No, it was entrusted to Baz at HoH in Nuneaton.

Posted by: Standard split - 14 September 2009 14:21:35
[quote=Standard split] There is a nice write-up on Rattletrap in the new (October) Volksworld. Yep, they're sure its a '518) [/quote] A rather substantially repaired '51 though:o

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 14 September 2009 19:09:27
Have you read the articles from VWM i posted john ?

Posted by: Standard split - 14 September 2009 19:29:39
[quote=Sunroof53]Have you read the articles from VWM i posted john ?[/quote] Seen all those, really does not prove or disprove Rattletrap's current pedigree. Tony Levy would still insist its a pre-production prototype of the planned 'Jukebox' style dash.:?

Posted by: GKL 7 - 14 September 2009 19:44:55
[quote=Standard split]Tony Levy would still insist its a pre-production prototype of the planned 'Jukebox' style dash.:? [/quote] Don't think the article in Volksworld potrayed Tony in a very good light at all. In fact, i think half the stories he told about the car were outright Bullshit.

Posted by: Standard split - 14 September 2009 19:58:43
[quote='50 Karmann] Don't think the article in Volksworld potrayed Tony in a very good light at all. In fact, i think half the stories he told about the car were outright Bullshit.[/quote] Yes, but they also did not dispute his claim on the car, or rubbish it[-x

Posted by: GKL 7 - 14 September 2009 20:09:30
[quote='50 Karmann] In fact, i think half the stories he told about the car were outright Bullshit.[/quote] What that was saying John, was unless you have evidence yourself for the originality and history of this car,what the owner was telling us couldn't be believed. So do you have your own evidence?

Posted by: 55Kab - 14 September 2009 20:19:00
And remember he used to tell those story's when there was no where near as much interest or knowledge about vintage VW's, so who was to challenge him? Certainly not the case today as we all know that Rattletrap (or the last incarnation of it from House of Haz) was/is a Zwitter and not some 51 prototype. Full marks for trying though! :lol:

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 14 September 2009 21:20:12
On this page is Rattltraps original chassis no before it was swapped by TBS.Reg is 10 BXK and no 37 on the list . https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/register6.jpg

Posted by: Standard split - 14 September 2009 21:23:25

[quote=Standard split] Yes, but they also did not dispute his claim on the car, or rubbish it[-x [/quote] What that was saying is that Volksworld appear to believe this car as genuine – their article in the latest edition does not say anything to the contrary. In fact they bang-on about its amazing mileage in excess of 820,00 miles as well as the incredible history. They do give lesser comments on Tony though. VW Motoring accepted the pedigree of Rattletrap to the point of making an on-going feature of it for many months. And remember, Rattletrap appeared in other publications too :wink: My best recollection of the excitement generated by this car was when it appeared on the ITV London 6 O'clock Show being driven round-and-round the studio in a large circle about to break through the 800,000 mile barrier, and a lot of cheering being made when it did. I think it was Michael Aspel who presented this, and he popped the bubbly! It's a job to believe that ITV would give prime-time weekday TV to something which did not check-out. Rattletrap was the first split I ever saw. Back in 1977, and the Queen's Silver Jubilee, while we were waiting for the Queen's open carriage to pass, Rattletrap managed to run accross the road junction just before it was closed. It was more of a treat for the young John than seeing the Queen pass afterwards. That sowed the seed for me to own a Split-Window Beetle when I was able to drive. More fascinating Rattletrap history 8)

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 14 September 2009 23:12:39

[quote=Standard split] What that was saying is that Volksworld appear to believe this car as genuine – their article in the latest edition does not say anything to the contrary. In fact they bang-on about its amazing mileage in excess of 820,00 miles as well as the incredible history. They do give lesser comments on Tony though. VW Motoring accepted the pedigree of Rattletrap to the point of making an on-going feature of it for many months. And remember, Rattletrap appeared in other publications too :wink: My best recollection of the excitement generated by this car was when it appeared on the ITV London 6 O'clock Show being driven round-and-round the studio in a large circle about to break through the 800,000 mile barrier, and a lot of cheering being made when it did. I think it was Michael Aspel who presented this, and he popped the bubbly! It's a job to believe that ITV would give prime-time weekday TV to something which did not check-out. Rattletrap was the first split I ever saw. Back in 1977, and the Queen's Silver Jubilee, while we were waiting for the Queen's open carriage to pass, Rattletrap managed to run accross the road junction just before it was closed. It was more of a treat for the young John than seeing the Queen pass afterwards. That sowed the seed for me to own a Split-Window Beetle when I was able to drive. More fascinating Rattletrap history 8) [/quote] I think they would rubbish it if they new the car was made in December 52.This alone makes the milelage claim invalid as the records he kept were from 1951. I understand now why you defending the Rattletrap legacy .It reminded me of when i was told that Herbie did not really have magic powers :cry: :lol:

Posted by: 55Kab - 14 September 2009 23:15:50
[quote=Sunroof53]It reminded me of when i was told that Herbie did not really have magic powers :cry: :lol: [/quote] WHAT :?: I hope you're not seriously suggesting Herbie is not real :!: :lol:

Posted by: JD - 14 September 2009 23:42:24
[quote=55Kab] WHAT :?: I hope you're not seriously suggesting Herbie is not real :!: :lol: [/quote] Herbie is definitely real - he was at Hessisch! I was also told not to refer to him as "it". He doesn´t like it apparently!:d

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 14 September 2009 23:54:51
:lol:

Posted by: 64rotbox - 15 September 2009 00:01:06
[quote=Standard split]It's a job to believe that ITV would give prime-time weekday TV to something which did not check-out.[/quote] I doubt anyone working on the programme in question would have an extensive knowledge of the finer details of early 1950s Volkswagens. It would have just been something to fill time before the next set of adverts... Much like most of their output, then.

Posted by: 55Kab - 15 September 2009 00:02:55
[quote=JD]Herbie is definitely real - he was at Hessisch! I was also told not to refer to him as "it". He doesn´t like it apparently!:d [/quote] Glad to hear that, you had me worried. I was dreaming about him only the other night...errr hang-on, or was that Lindsey Lohan...oh it's so confusing! :lol:

Posted by: Standard split - 15 September 2009 10:16:33

[quote=Sunroof53] I think they would rubbish it if they new the car was made in December 52.This alone makes the milelage claim invalid as the records he kept were from 1951. :lol: [/quote] Nonsense. They and VW Motoring can see it's a Zwitter style body. Even if the mileage could only be dated from 1952 – it would still be a hell of a lot. Unlike Herbie(s) Rattletrap is real and there is just the one. Rattletrap's history and story knock all other old UK VWs for six :twisted: Many love Rattletrap, and some just want to rubbish it [-x Rattletrap has done a lot to increase the interest in early VW's with its TV and magazine appearances 8)

Posted by: Standard split - 15 September 2009 10:26:14

[quote=64rotbox] I doubt anyone working on the programme in question would have an extensive knowledge of the finer details of early 1950s Volkswagens. It would have just been something to fill time before the next set of adverts... Much like most of their output, then.[/quote] It featured throughout this main ITV London news programme while driving round-and-round the cleared studio area and was certainly not an advert 'filler'. This made good publicity for early VWs too. Many viewers would never have seen such an early VW8) Probably should go into the Wolfsburg VW Museum for that alone:o The car is pure VW legend for sure:wink:

Posted by: Mike Peckham - 15 September 2009 13:05:02

[quote=Standard split] Probably should go into the Wolfsburg VW Museum for that alone:o [/quote] I'm not trying to be controversial here, but I always understould that it had a place earmarked in the VW Museum but VW decided that after it had been rebodied it couldn't realistically be considdered to be the same car and thus no longer felt that it should be in the museum. I love Rateletrap too, but I think one has to take much of what Tony said with a pinch of salt. VWM used to say that Rattletrap didn't necessarily add up on all counts and Tony himself said after the restoration that the only thing left on the car that was original was the gear knob. I doubt that even that could have been original as the chassis was replaced int the early 70s for a post 08/55 version so presumably that would have required a cranked gearlever? :? For all that, it remains a great piece of history and as you say, has done loads to promote early VWs. Mike

Posted by: Standard split - 15 September 2009 14:00:52

[quote=Mike Peckham] I'm not trying to be controversial here, but I always understould that it had a place earmarked in the VW Museum but VW decided that after it had been rebodied it couldn't realistically be considdered to be the same car and thus no longer felt that it should be in the museum. I love Rateletrap too, but I think one has to take much of what Tony said with a pinch of salt. VWM used to say that Rattletrap didn't necessarily add up on all counts and Tony himself said after the restoration that the only thing left on the car that was original was the gear knob. I doubt that even that could have been original as the chassis was replaced int the early 70s for a post 08/55 version so presumably that would have required a cranked gearlever? :? For all that, it remains a great piece of history and as you say, has done loads to promote early VWs. Mike [/quote] Tony used to make his gear knob quip long before the truck badly damaged Rattletrap. The car has had so much replaced during its life, that alone makes it worthy of a place in the Wolfsburg VW Museum. This is testament to how durable the Beetle design was and that parts are interchangeable through the years, giving the car almost endless life.8) With such a colourful history – a great exhibit:lol:

Posted by: mrsherbie - 15 September 2009 15:26:02
Yes I agree with you totally. Thats what I think about the car too :beer:

Posted by: Standard split - 15 September 2009 18:24:25
[quote=mrsherbie]Yes I agree with you totally. Thats what I think about the car too :beer: [/quote] After spending so long in an obscure motor museum, I think that Rattletrap should go on show at Wolfsburg someday.:beer: It'll be the star there 8)

Posted by: GKL 7 - 15 September 2009 20:10:21
[quote=Standard split] It'll be the star there [/quote] Here we go again............... ROPMFLOL.

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 15 September 2009 20:25:55

[quote=Standard split] Nonsense. They and VW Motoring can see it's a Zwitter style body. Even if the mileage could only be dated from 1952 – it would still be a hell of a lot. Unlike Herbie(s) Rattletrap is real and there is just the one. Rattletrap's history and story knock all other old UK VWs for six :twisted: Many love Rattletrap, and some just want to rubbish it [-x Rattletrap has done a lot to increase the interest in early VW's with its TV and magazine appearances 8) [/quote] I wasnt talking about VWM but the feature in Volksworld that you were talking about.Clearly they think the car was a 51.

Posted by: Standard split - 15 September 2009 20:30:28
[quote=Sunroof53] I wasnt talking about VWM but the feature in Volksworld that you were talking about.Clearly they think the car was a 51.[/quote] A '51 it is then – not a '52 – I used to think it was a '53 once.:twisted:

Posted by: JD - 15 September 2009 20:40:52
[quote=Standard split] A '51 it is then – not a '52 – I used to think it was a '53 once.:twisted: [/quote] It´s probably all three!:lol: :lol:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 15 September 2009 20:42:36
[quote=JD] It´s probably all three!:lol: :lol: [/quote] :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Many a true word spoken in jest.

Posted by: Standard split - 15 September 2009 20:47:45
[quote=JD] It´s probably all three!:lol: :lol: [/quote] I still think there's four 'Beetles' hiding in there, but at the root is Tony's beloved '51 – which is what counts[-x

Posted by: 55Kab - 15 September 2009 21:17:43
Well I for one for really like to know the answer to this seemingly unsolveable mystery. Where is Baz Haselock???

Posted by: Standard split - 15 September 2009 21:33:46
[quote=Standard split] I still think there's four 'Beetles' hiding in there, but at the root is Tony's beloved '51 – which is what counts[-x [/quote] [quote=55Kab]Well I for one for really like to know the answer to this seemingly unsolveable mystery. Where is Baz Haselock??? [/quote] Perhaps he's in there too:lol:

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 15 September 2009 21:58:37

[quote=55Kab]Well I for one for really like to know the answer to this seemingly unsolveable mystery. Where is Baz Haselock??? [/quote] I seem to recall that 'Bearded Baz' had a price put on his head in the mid-90s when he closed his workshop. I think he'd upset some people, but I can't remember the exact story. I last saw him skulking in the back of Kingfisher Kustoms' old workshop in about 1996.

Posted by: Standard split - 15 September 2009 22:22:04
[quote=Rich Oakley] I seem to recall that 'Bearded Baz' had a price put on his head in the mid-90s when he closed his workshop. I think he'd upset some people, but I can't remember the exact story. I last saw him skulking in the back of Kingfisher Kustoms' old workshop in about 1996.[/quote] Seems like Rattletrap will keep its secrets forever:p

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 16 September 2009 00:19:18
[quote=Standard split] A '51 it is then – not a '52 – I used to think it was a '53 once.:twisted: [/quote] Chassis No 1-0433703 makes the original rattletrap a December 1952 car.How can you validate mileage history from 1951 for a car that was not built for another 2 years:roll:

Posted by: Standard split - 16 September 2009 10:06:30

[quote=Sunroof53] Chassis No 1-0433703 makes the original rattletrap a December 1952 car.How can you validate mileage history from 1951 for a car that was not built for another 2 years:roll: [/quote] [b]IF[/b] records start late '51, then '51-late '52 is only [b]ONE[/b] year.[-x The mileage from '52 on would still be incredible.:shock: It probably began life as a '51, just not much left, that's all:lol: Rattletrap's a VW legend regardless [-x

Posted by: 48REME - 16 September 2009 14:45:10
I find this never ending thread such a depressing bore. Anything else on the menu?

Posted by: Standard split - 16 September 2009 15:17:26
[quote=48REME]I find this never ending thread such a depressing bore. Anything else on the menu?[/quote] Look at one of the many other threads and forums – or go to a different site:twisted: I expect you whinge about a TV programme you dislike and expect it to be removed, even though others watch it, when you could just switch to one of the other 250 channels.[-x

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 16 September 2009 16:38:52

[quote=Standard split] [b]IF[/b] records start late '51, then '51-late '52 is only [b]ONE[/b] year.[-x The mileage from '52 on would still be incredible.:shock: It probably began life as a '51, just not much left, that's all:lol: Rattletrap's a VW legend regardless [-x [/quote] One year or two or two makes no difference its still not a 51 :!: Mileage is stil high ,but how high we will never know. It definitly began life as a December 52 Zwitter and definitly not much left :lol: Rattletrap ,Despite the contraversy is definitly a Legend :wink:

Posted by: Standard split - 16 September 2009 17:37:56
[quote=Sunroof53] Rattletrap ,Despite the contraversy is definitly a Legend :wink: [/quote] Well we agree on one point:beer: But maybe not some others:wink:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 16 September 2009 19:08:47
EVERY NIGHT I COME HOME FROM WORK,LOG ON AND....... [ATTACH]3536[/Attach]

Posted by: RoRoVw - 16 September 2009 19:17:50
[quote=48REME]I find this never ending thread such a depressing bore. Anything else on the menu?[/quote] I couldn't agree more!

Posted by: Standard split - 16 September 2009 19:29:49
[quote=RoRoVw] I couldn't agree more! [/quote] There are other places to look – the internet is endless ( a little like Rattletrap's mileage theory and its thread I guess):lol: [quote='50 Karmann]EVERY NIGHT I COME HOME FROM WORK,LOG ON AND....... [/quote] You work :shock: – I thought rich people took life easy:!:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 16 September 2009 19:33:51
[quote=Standard split] You work :shock: – I thought rich people took life easy:!: [/quote] It's charity work [ATTACH]3537[/Attach]

Posted by: Standard split - 16 September 2009 19:41:17
[quote='50 Karmann] It's charity work[/quote] You probably own the charity – not give to it, that's why you're so well-heeled. Spare us a quid guv:o

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 16 September 2009 20:05:07
[quote=48REME]I find this never ending thread such a depressing bore. Anything else on the menu?[/quote] We are just trying to see how many times we can get the thread locked.I am going for a hatrick :twisted:

Posted by: Standard split - 16 September 2009 20:16:10
[quote=Sunroof53] We are just trying to see how many times we can get the thread locked.I am going for a hatrick :twisted: [/quote] Don't get it locked yet – I'm hoping to post some ground-breaking material on the nation's favourite 'Beetle' at some point:shock:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 16 September 2009 20:17:39
BTW i hope nobody thinks i'm having a go at John.It's all just banter.

Posted by: Standard split - 16 September 2009 20:24:45
[quote='50 Karmann]BTW i hope nobody thinks i'm having a go at John.It's all just banter.[/quote] We get on fine – its just that he's had a hit man after me – but I'm going to be buried in my '49, so he'll have to dig it up:shock:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 16 September 2009 21:54:54
Tools at the ready. My mans slow,i'll give it a week.Then i'm calling off the hit. [ATTACH]3544[/Attach]

Posted by: Standard split - 16 September 2009 21:59:25
[quote='50 Karmann]Tools at the ready. My mans slow,i'll give it a week.Then i'm calling off the hit.[/quote] Mmm… perhaps cremation would be better:?

Posted by: Chris - 16 September 2009 22:42:32
[quote=Standard split] Mmm… perhaps cremation would be better:? [/quote] He's thought of that aswell John...... [img]https://gridskipper.com/assets/resources/2007/03/ddi.jpg[/img] Let's face it, you might aswell just sell it to him now :wink:

Posted by: Standard split - 16 September 2009 22:48:46
[quote=Chris] He's thought of that aswell John...... Let's face it, you might aswell just sell it to him now :wink: [/quote] It'll be even hotter where '50 Karmann's going:twisted:

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 16 September 2009 22:58:11
I think until someone gets some better photos, see's the car or talks to someone from Haselock then this thread is going nowhere. :wink: Going by 20 year old black and white photos where you can "maybe" see a line of weld is a tad frivolous.

Posted by: pre67vw - 17 September 2009 00:18:29
[quote=54 Gertie]I think until someone gets some better photos, see's the car...[/quote] When was the last time you saw Rattletrap John?

Posted by: 1958ghia - 17 September 2009 00:51:42
I can't be bothered to read the previous 14 pages. Can someone please explain the whole story from the beginning? :lol:

Posted by: pre67vw - 17 September 2009 02:28:28
[quote=1958ghia]I can't be bothered to read the previous 14 pages. Can someone please explain the whole story from the beginning? :lol: [/quote] Err, someone said one thing - then some people replied and said something else.. it kind of went on like that for a while, then it all got a bit dull because there was nothing new to add...

Posted by: Standard split - 17 September 2009 10:09:53

Posted by: mrsherbie - 17 September 2009 11:53:35

[quote=1958ghia]I can't be bothered to read the previous 14 pages. Can someone please explain the whole story from the beginning? :lol: [/quote] :lol: 1 car, many conflicting stories. Some guys who have been around a long time know more truth than the published info. Just goes to prove though, it [i]is[/i] an interesting car in part due to this [i]sex lies and videotape[/i] provenance. Reminds me of the backlash after Jamie O said his samba had a porsche engine in it on Topgear. ( By the way I LOVE Jamie O (almost as much as Hugh but not quite) and his new USA series is great!) By the way Mr Standard, blank posts are illegal and subject to a user ban for lack of contentious content :lol:

Posted by: Standard split - 17 September 2009 11:58:26
[quote=mrsherbie] :lol: By the way Mr Standard, blank posts are illegal and subject to a user ban for lack of contentious content :lol: [/quote] I was lost for words:oops:

Posted by: Standard split - 17 September 2009 19:44:55
[quote=Standard split] I was lost for words:oops: [/quote] [quote=pre67vw] When was the last time you saw Rattletrap John?[/quote] That's why :roll:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 17 September 2009 20:39:59
[quote=Standard split] That's why :roll: [/quote] Not good enough,answer the question:lol:

Posted by: Standard split - 17 September 2009 21:42:20
[quote=48REME]I find this never ending thread such a depressing bore. Anything else on the menu?[/quote] Don't often agree with 48RME, but maybe its time to put Rattletap to bed and move on… :roll:

Posted by: bruce - 20 September 2009 01:22:15

[quote=Standard split] The pics of the 're-borne car' if studied show what must be a replacement later style small window door, August 1955 - 1964, (small latch and no inside ribbing) on what was the badly damaged side, but still the pre August 1955 ribbed door on the undamaged (driver's) side. [/quote] Go back to page 6 and look at your pics. The right side door is clearly a pre-55 door with the rubber alignment wedges. [ATTACH]3560[/Attach]

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 20 September 2009 04:18:00
Your totally right Bruce about the door.I put a lot of time into this thread ,finding old features etc and hope there is enough here for people to make there own mind up on this car.I dont think anyone is going to change there thoughts as its all a matter of personal opinion .The only thing i would still like to see are Tonys mileage logs from 1951 for his 1952 car...:wink:

Posted by: Standard split - 21 September 2009 10:13:33

Ah well, the Rattletrap 'theory' rumbles on – I did try to 'put it to bed':? 48 RME you'd best go to the 57 - 67 forum as you are so tired of this – lots of shiny cars there, yours too :twisted: However, for those of you still interested, I'll be posting some ground-breaking info on Rattletrap later today. This will be fact and not the guess work and theories that we've put up with so far.:shock:

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 21 September 2009 11:45:30
[quote=Standard split]Ah well, the Rattletrap 'theory' rumbles on – I did try to 'put it to bed':? I'll be posting some ground-breaking info on Rattletrap later today. This will be fact and not the guess work and theories that we've put up with so far.:shock: [/quote] You need to try much harder...:twisted: ...:lol: The suspense is killing me :roll: :roll: .

Posted by: Standard split - 21 September 2009 16:07:57
[quote=Sunroof53] The only thing i would still like to see are Tonys mileage logs from 1951 for his 1952 car...:wink: [/quote] Wrong… 1950 for his 1950 car:shock: [ATTACH]3562[/Attach]

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 21 September 2009 16:52:25
You should know better than to take a painted peice of board as proof of manufacture [-x . Chassis nunbers dont lie and Tony made the error of publishing the original number in Safer motoring .The chassis number published ties up with every detail on the car .Its a Zwitter made in December 52.That original chassis was swapped for a 55 by TBS years later. Jury is still out :twisted:

Posted by: Standard split - 21 September 2009 17:01:27

[quote=Sunroof53]You should know better than to take a painted peice of board as proof of manufacture [-x . Chassis nunbers dont lie and Tony made the error of publishing the original number in Safer motoring .The chassis number published ties up with every detail on the car .Its a Zwitter made in December 52.That original chassis was swapped for a 55 by TBS years later. Jury is still out :twisted: [/quote] Yes, but Tony claimed to have mileage records back to 1950, the car is believed to ended-up with a 1953 chassis (as shown in your Safer Motoring copy):wink: Don't know where you get the '1952' chassis then '1955' chassis from[-x [b]The bomb-shell will come soon though[/b]:shock:

Posted by: Chris - 21 September 2009 17:45:48
[quote=Standard split] [b]The bomb-shell will come soon though[/b]:shock: [/quote] We're all here waiting... [img]https://smiley.onegreatguy.net/crowd.gif[/img] I can't believe Rob hasn't locked this yet. Where is he when you need him ? [img]https://smiley.onegreatguy.net/sleeping.gif[/img]

Posted by: JD - 21 September 2009 17:52:32
[quote=Standard split] Yes, but Tony claimed to have mileage records back to 1950 [/quote] Yes, for the car he [i]started with[/i].

Posted by: Standard split - 21 September 2009 17:59:33
[quote=JD] Yes, for the car he [i]started with[/i]. [/quote] What's left of the car he started with :? I hope your computers are all bomb-proof :d Keep your coffee away from the keyboards… this thread will be concluding soon :shock: Rob for heaven's sake don't lock it [-x

Posted by: GKL 7 - 21 September 2009 18:17:50
He's probably trying to work out how to post pictures and is delaying 'til he gets his head around it. Or he's had a Seance and Tony ,himself, is about to come on line.

Posted by: Standard split - 21 September 2009 18:20:57
[quote='50 Karmann]He's probably trying to work out how to post pictures and is delaying 'til he gets his head around it.[/quote] Just making sure there's a full audience – see if it all crashes:twisted:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 21 September 2009 18:24:46
[quote=Standard split] Just making sure there's a full audience [/quote] They all went away BORED STIFF weeks ago. Get on with it and if it's an anti climax be prepared for flak

Posted by: JD - 21 September 2009 18:25:18
[quote=Standard split] What's left of the car he started with ? [/quote] Nothing - he scrapped it and started again with a 52.

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 21 September 2009 18:36:30
Id be lying if I said that I wasnt intrigued but I fear it will be a blurry photo, [i]possibly[/i] showing a bit of unground weld. :wink: :twisted:

Posted by: Standard split - 21 September 2009 18:50:48
Rattletrap was seen basking in the north London sunshine very recently8)

Posted by: Mike Peckham - 21 September 2009 18:58:57

I think the DVLA info is quite telling; Date of Liability 21 12 1994 Date of First Registration 02 03 1961 Year of Manufacture 1950 Cylinder Capacity (cc) 1192CC CO2 Emissions Not Available Fuel Type Petrol Export Marker Not Applicable Vehicle Status Unlicensed Vehicle Colour BLACK It says date of first registration 02/03/1961, and yet Tony claimed that the car was already registered and in regular use in the UK by the late 50s. He used to say that it was part of the opening celebrations for the M1 and was one of the first cars to drive its length - I think the M1 was opened in 1958? I still think that Tony probably did have a 1950 beetle which he bought in Germany and brought back to the UK, but for what ever reason it had to be replaced, and in 1961 he found himself a nice zwitter on a trip back to Germany and brought it back, registered it as a '50 and continued the mileage log from the original. Who would have known? It was probably much later, when people became a bit more savvy and the car gained some notoriety that he developed the story of it being a prototype to explain its zwitter credentials. All specualtion I know, but in the absence of a more bullet proof explanation there will always be speculation as this thread has proved! :wink: Out of interest, has there been any other record of these prototypes, other than Rattletrap? Mike8) Ps: I still think the whole Rattletrap phenomenon is truly marvellous and Tony must be looking down on us with glee. To think that his car is still provoking debate more than a decade after his death...

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 21 September 2009 19:10:19
[quote=Standard split]Here's Rattletrap basking in the north London sunshine very recently8) [/quote] So you bought it? 8) Detailed pics then! :wink:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 21 September 2009 19:15:52
Wondered why you were being so defensive John. Congratulations you spent your hard earned on a "BITSA"

Posted by: Standard split - 21 September 2009 19:17:17

[quote=Mike Peckham] It says date of first registration 02/03/1961, and yet Tony claimed that the car was already registered and in regular use in the UK by the late 50s. He used to say that it was part of the opening celebrations for the M1 and was one of the first cars to drive its length - I think the M1 was opened in 1958? I still think that Tony probably did have a 1950 beetle which he bought in Germany and brought back to the UK, but for what ever reason it had to be replaced, and in 1961 he found himself a nice zwitter on a trip back to Germany and brought it back, registered it as a '50 and continued the mileage log from the original. [/quote] Not completely correct. Tony used to visit with the car before finally having it registered here. Remember he was well know for his journeys abroad with the car. He may not have been lying with his M1 claim – we should not assume he was[-x

Posted by: Mike Peckham - 21 September 2009 19:40:14

[quote=Standard split] He may not have been lying with his M1 claim – we should not assume he was[-x [/quote] I didn't say that I thought that he was lying, in fact I don't doubt that claim at all. I doubt however that it was the Rattletrap that was registered in the UK in 1961 that was the one that was there in 1958. I remain to be convinced by the whole Ratttletrap story, but I could conceivably be if the following two questions are answered; 1/ Why does there not appear to be any evidence of this run of experimental beetles in VW literature when the company were competent enough to record that they had fitted an experimental bearing or tubeless tyres to a run of 800 beetles? 2/ What was it that made VW withdraw their invitation to have the car on show at their museum in Wolfsburg? I don't think we shall ever know the truth but the detective work is fascinating! :d Mike

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 21 September 2009 19:57:28

[quote=Sunroof53]On this page is Rattltraps original chassis no before it was swapped by TBS.Reg is 10 BXK and no 37 on the list . https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/register6.jpg[/quote] Click on the link and read the above.I will have to trawl though the articles again to find the 55 chassis reference.Although you can see its a later floor from the resto pics.I am off to work but look forward to your next bombshell.Carefull though ,these things have a habit of blowing up in the wrong direction :wink: Oh, and that car next to rattletrap needs a polish :twisted:

Posted by: Standard split - 21 September 2009 20:08:43

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:[b] OK, ITS BOMBSHELL TIME[/b]:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: Now I have to admit to doing a double-take when checking this, maybe some will say I'm on a wind-up, and I promise you I'm not. [b]The body number is 115511[/b] – this makes it a May 1950 car (well body anyway – prototype Zwitter style after all?):shock: :shock:

Posted by: 55Kab - 21 September 2009 20:59:42
[quote=Standard split]The body number is 115511[/b] – this makes it a 1950 car[/quote] As they say, photos or it didn't happen :!: So do you own it? Fezz up! If so lets see some detailed photos please.

Posted by: Mike Peckham - 21 September 2009 21:04:07

Very interesting and certainly thought provoking, but my thoughts are; 1/ The chassis number that Tony quoted as being the "original" relates to a '52 car which is consistant with it being a zwitter. 2/ The jury is still out over what (if any) of the 'original' body remains, so the number on the clip, and we have seen in the photos that the clip was cut away from the 'original' body post crash, remains less compelling than the chassis number offered in the early '70s. 3/ Where is the evidence from VW that there ever was a series of 'experimental' beetles in 1950? Just my thoughts... Mike 8)

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 21 September 2009 21:09:09
I agree, John, c'mon, get some detailed pics up. It will be good to see what this car actually is. There was always so much myth and conjecture surrounding this car (as proved by this thread). Don't keep it under wraps, let's see some details and we'll try to figure out between all of us what the score is. Look forward to the pics.

Posted by: Standard split - 21 September 2009 21:43:53

[quote=Mike Peckham]Very interesting and certainly thought provoking, but my thoughts are; 2/ The jury is still out over what (if any) of the 'original' body remains, so the number on the clip, and we have seen in the photos that the clip was cut away from the 'original' body post crash, remains less compelling than the chassis number offered in the early '70s. [/quote] Looking at the car, there is no doubt that this is NOT an Oval window body with a Spilt rear window clip welded in as many argued on this thread. That is a certainty. Evidence of joins and welds can be traced through the paint, but do not show on camera, some marks are evident when examining the roof. Panels of the left uncrashed side bear much more corrosion than those on the repaired side, especially noticeable on the front quarters. Floor pans are clearly replaced as we know. From items with the car it is clear that Tony was able to drive this car in the UK on his US Forces plates for a while before being registered 10 BXK. It seems he made visits here prior to 1960. It is certainly looking as though this was the original car he had, but as some may say its like the original broom that still exists, but with a replacement head and handle. Essentially, there is at least some of the original car left, as well as Tony's spirit which still seems to be with it – probably lapping up all the attention. Not the most collectable early 'Beetle' in originality and condition terms, but the legend that goes with the thing makes it irreplaceable and the jewel in the crown of any VW collection 8) One thing that makes the DeLuxe Zwitter the best looking 'Beetle' viewed from the back is the Split-window with the aluminum trim around it. In the half light the window sure stands out, but needs to be black though :wink:

Posted by: Standard split - 21 September 2009 21:50:05
[quote='50 Karmann]Wondered why you were being so defensive John. Congratulations you spent your hard earned on a "BITSA"[/quote] A BITSA for sure, but it even challenges my '49 for the limelight – priceless8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

Posted by: JD - 21 September 2009 21:50:40
Aside from everything else John, I´m really happy that you have the car of your dreams from when you were young(er?). Not many people get to achieve that!:beer:

Posted by: Mike Peckham - 21 September 2009 22:05:20
[quote=JD]Aside from everything else John, I´m really happy that you have the car of your dreams from when you were young(er?). Not many people get to achieve that!:beer: [/quote] x 2

Posted by: Standard split - 21 September 2009 22:11:00

[quote=JD]Aside from everything else John, I´m really happy that you have the car of your dreams from when you were young(er?). Not many people get to achieve that!:beer: [/quote] Thanks, and Mike too. You remembered my earlier post then: [quote=Standard split] Rattletrap was the first split I ever saw. Back in 1977, and the Queen's Silver Jubilee, while we were waiting for the Queen's open carriage to pass, Rattletrap managed to run across the road junction just before it was closed. It was more of a treat for the young John than seeing the Queen pass afterwards. That sowed the seed for me to own a Split-Window Beetle when I was able to drive. More fascinating Rattletrap history 8) [/quote Can't spell out the excitement at seeing the thing back then, I easily remembered the unusual and short registration 8) Had to have a split after that – the stuff dreams were made of for me back then:wink:

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 21 September 2009 22:13:34
Well done, I really hoped this thread would have a happy ending. 8) C'mon then, get some pics up! Seeing as you can clearly use the attatch function. :wink: Also, I trust you will be giving the old girl a pounding round the streets of London? :wink: :d 8) :beer: Enjoy

Posted by: Standard split - 21 September 2009 22:34:49

[quote=54 Gertie]Well done, I really hoped this thread would have a happy ending. 8) C'mon then, get some pics up! Seeing as you can clearly use the attatch function. :wink: Also, I trust you will be giving the old girl a pounding round the streets of London? :wink: :d 8) :beer: Enjoy [/quote] Have to get the camera out, I think Rattletrap loves attention, I know that Tony would love it – although its not so much my thing, my cars generally stay under wraps. Rattletrap's a little different though, sort of everyone's car in a way:p According to documents, Rattletrap must know London's streets better than me, spent most its life there, and still there now :wink:

Posted by: pre67vw - 21 September 2009 23:12:12
[quote=pre67vw] When was the last time you saw Rattletrap John?[/quote] Glad you finally owned up, it was the best way this thread could go... Congrats on owning a piece of VW folklore :beer:

Posted by: Standard split - 21 September 2009 23:28:47
[quote=pre67vw] When was the last time you saw Rattletrap John?[/quote] Tea time – when I went to get Geezer my cat for his feed. He sleeps under Rattletrap, kinda likes the car:d

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 22 September 2009 07:57:14
But what about the Bombshell you promised us :shock: I have to say you are the perfect owner for this car .its true what they say ,Everything comes to those who wait :d .A boyhood dream come true.Be careful though 50 karmans hitman now knows the car you drive :lol:

Posted by: JD - 22 September 2009 09:14:25
[quote=Standard split] Tea time – when I went to get Geezer my cat for his feed. He sleeps under Rattletrap, kinda likes the car:d [/quote] Sounds ideal for soaking up the oil! I think I´d better get one.:lol:

Posted by: Standard split - 22 September 2009 10:09:58
[quote=Sunroof53] But what about the Bombshell you promised us :shock: [/quote] Are you being sarky, Sunroof 53, or did you not read further back:roll: Thanks for your nice comment though:wink:

Posted by: Standard split - 22 September 2009 10:12:06
[quote=JD] Sounds ideal for soaking up the oil! I think I´d better get one.:lol: [/quote] Has a good wash each week to keep the oil off. Geezer has a wash too:lol:

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 03 October 2009 01:57:59

Just found the article which Volksworld must have used for there recent article on Rattletrap.There is few nice photos that you may not have seen.Article is from 1989 .Best viwed with the firefox browser and use CTL and + keys to zoom. [IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/Safer%20motoring%20pages/rattleinsafer891280x768.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/Safer%20motoring%20pages/rattleinsafer89A1280x768.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: rattlekid - 04 October 2009 23:46:00

Hi, I am Tony Levy's daughter and have just come across this discussion about my dad's car; mainly because a family member and a couple of his close friends/neighbours have been asking me if I know whatever became of it. I recall the car being at Bentley Wood and have assumed it remained there. The car was my dad's pride and joy; he loved it more than anything, and I would love to know whether it is being looked after by an enthusiast or whatever came of his most precious possession. If anyone can let me know, I would appreciate it.

Posted by: JD - 04 October 2009 23:50:33

Posted by: pre67vw - 05 October 2009 02:10:03

[quote=rattlekid]I would love to know whether it is being looked after by an enthusiast or whatever came of his most precious possession. [/quote] I'd say it is in the best possible hands... :d [quote=Standard split] Rattletrap was the first split I ever saw. Back in 1977, and the Queen's Silver Jubilee, while we were waiting for the Queen's open carriage to pass, Rattletrap managed to run across the road junction just before it was closed. It was more of a treat for the young John than seeing the Queen pass afterwards. That sowed the seed for me to own a Split-Window Beetle when I was able to drive. More fascinating Rattletrap history 8) Can't spell out the excitement at seeing the thing back then, I easily remembered the unusual and short registration 8) [/quote]

Posted by: Standard split - 05 October 2009 10:47:28

[quote=rattlekid]Hi, I am Tony Levy's daughter and have just come across this discussion about my dad's car; mainly because a family member and a couple of his close friends/neighbours have been asking me if I know whatever became of it. I recall the car being at Bentley Wood and have assumed it remained there. The car was my dad's pride and joy; he loved it more than anything, and I would love to know whether it is being looked after by an enthusiast or whatever came of his most precious possession. If anyone can let me know, I would appreciate it. [/quote] Hi Rattlekid and a big welcome:d Yes I have Rattletrap (pictured left in my avatar) :d I have a fair collection of early VWs, and needless to say Rattletrap is a favourite :beer: It was my first ever sighting of a split rear window 'Beetle' and at the Queen's Silver Jubilee celebrations in 1977, in central London of all places :p It had a big impact on the young 'Standard Split' – more so than seeing the Queen:shock: Rattletrap managed to put in an appearance in front of the huge waiting crowds just before the Queen's procession and carriage passed. So cool, only your Dad could have pulled that off8) 8) 8) 8) 8) I later saw Rattletrap when it featured with your Dad on ITV main time television too breaking the 800,000 mile barrier 8) It seems he managed to get everywhere with Rattletrap – [b]the King of Volkswagens[/b]:!: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: I regard this car as priceless, and I am so pleased to be taking care of it, it almost ended going to a buyer abroad but it's here with me in London in the company of other early VWs:wink:

Posted by: Standard split - 05 October 2009 17:59:55

[quote='50 Karmann] Rattletrap looks awefully shiney in your avatar John:roll: [/quote] A diamond can't help but shine 8) [quote=Sunroof53]Just found the article which Volksworld must have used for there recent article on Rattletrap.There is few nice photos that you may not have seen.Article is from 1989 .Best viwed with the firefox browser and use CTL and + keys to zoom. [/quote] Thanks Sunroof53:o I don't have every printed item about Rattletrap (I expect there's others), so I can run these 2 pages off and add them to Rattletrap's history file:beer: Anything else that turns-up would be welcome from you and other forum users8)

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 05 October 2009 19:37:19
I have a few others I have collected just about everthing that was printed in vw motoring plus a few other bits.I think i already posted most of it but i will post what ever i find .It was spanned over a number of years so may take some time.

Posted by: Standard split - 05 October 2009 20:23:14
[quote=Sunroof53]I have a few others I have collected just about everthing that was printed in vw motoring plus a few other bits.I think i already posted most of it but i will post what ever i find .It was spanned over a number of years so may take some time.[/quote] Cheers :beer: I wonder if ITV have any of the film footage:?

Posted by: samghia - 13 October 2009 11:03:31
Safer Motoring October 69 thank goodness this car did not become a coffee table. [IMG]https://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b33/samueltype3/Rattletrap.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: Standard split - 13 October 2009 15:13:15

"Not murder" – What could have been worse for Rattletrap than being crushed into a cube:shock: And a very heavy 'coffee table' too:? [b][quote=samghia][/b]Safer Motoring October 69 thank goodness this car did not become a coffee table.[[b]/quote][/b] I've put my tea on Rattletrap's bonnet when working around it – does that make it a tea table :lol: A lot of Tony's stories such as pushing Rattletrap 10 miles I'm sure were to add humour to his history of it, although I think there was always a certain underlying truth to his catalogued events8) Thanks for posting that interesting news snippet though samghia, more to go into Rattletrap's history file :beer:

Posted by: Standard split - 13 October 2009 19:55:07
Does anyone have any information about Rattletrap's embrace with a Volvo some years before the old lady in the huge MAC truck tried to obliterate Rattletrap while in Mexico:?

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 17 October 2009 12:49:35
[IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/Safer%20motoring%20pages/rattlemay89.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/Safer%20motoring%20pages/rattlemay89a.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 17 October 2009 12:52:08
[IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/Safer%20motoring%20pages/Rattledecember89.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/Safer%20motoring%20pages/Rattledecember89a.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 17 October 2009 12:53:15
[IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/Safer%20motoring%20pages/rattlejune89.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/Safer%20motoring%20pages/rattlejune890001.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 17 October 2009 12:54:38
[IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/Safer%20motoring%20pages/rattleAugust91.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f30/sqeeter/Safer%20motoring%20pages/rattleAugust91a.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: GKL 7 - 17 October 2009 20:50:43
[ATTACH]3626[/Attach]

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 17 October 2009 21:07:00
[quote='50 Karmann][/quote] Dont worry I lost interest a while back .Its just no fun now that John finally confessed to owning Rtrap.Just posting for Standard Splits archive.Have you got a new car yet ?.

Posted by: GKL 7 - 17 October 2009 21:49:12
:cry: no

Posted by: Standard split - 19 October 2009 10:22:29

[quote=Sunroof53] Dont worry I lost interest a while back .Its just no fun now that John finally confessed to owning Rtrap.Just posting for Standard Splits archive.Have you got a new car yet ?.[/quote] Thanks Sunroof53:!: Keep adding anything else you find. The thread is just like Rattletrap – it can't be killed off:lol: And frankly, most other threads that have come and gone recently are just not that interesting, so Rattletrap the UK's most famous Volkswagen keeps on hogging the forum:beer: [quote='50 Karmann]:cry: no[/quote] George – find yourself your dream car as I have with Rattletrap, and show it on this forum. You'll be a lot more cheery with your postings and maybe steal Rattletrap's limelight :wink:

Posted by: 48REME - 19 October 2009 15:43:45
Just carry on like this for one more month and this exhilarating thread will be a year old! Whooopeee! [ATTACH]3628[/Attach]

Posted by: mrsherbie - 19 October 2009 16:05:14
WOW :shock: I spend a few weeks away busy playing with our new puppy ( well being bitten mostly actually) and I miss out on all the big news! :d In fact rattletrap looks very similar to our new 50 though ours is not staying for long but I am enjoying driving around in it anyway :d Congratulations to both car and new Dad :beer:

Posted by: Standard split - 19 October 2009 18:09:14
[quote=48REME]Just carry on like this for one more month and this exhilarating thread will be a year old! Whooopeee![/quote] You could have least put a Beetle on top of the cake :twisted: Anyway Nicholas, Rattletrap's shiny:!: But I'll live with that because stars always shine 8) :

Posted by: Standard split - 19 October 2009 18:15:39

[quote=mrsherbie]WOW :shock: I spend a few weeks away busy playing with our new puppy ( well being bitten mostly actually) and I miss out on all the big news! :d In fact rattletrap looks very similar to our new 50 though ours is not staying for long but I am enjoying driving around in it anyway :d Congratulations to both car and new Dad :beer: [/quote] Thanks mrsherbie, 'Dad' is very proud and pleased with Rattletrap8) 8) 8) I got bitten by Geezer my cat Sunday – he rugby tackled me and hung on to my leg as I continued to ignore him and walked along. Does it for attention, but gave me a nip nonetheless:lol: Rattletrap's a '50 too. Where's the picture of your '50 and where's it going too:?

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 19 October 2009 19:25:04
So have you finally worked out how much of the car is still the original '50/'51/'52 split? :wink:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 19 October 2009 19:26:51
[quote=Standard split] Rattletrap's a '50 too. [/quote] [-x

Posted by: Standard split - 19 October 2009 20:09:31

[quote='50 Karmann] 50 [-x [/quote] So says the body number :twisted: [quote=54 Gertie]So have you finally worked out how much of the car is still the original '50/'51/'52 split? :wink: [/quote] I'm still working out just how much is the original, may take some time :? Whatever though, all the history, legend, stories, news articles as well as my and other's enthusiasm for Rattletrap carry forward with the car that is Rattletrap the Volkswagen legend 8)

Posted by: JULIANROBINSON - 14 November 2009 22:09:23
[IMG]https://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb123/jrvwjr/VW%20SHOWS%20FROM%20THE%20LATE%201980s%20AND%20EARLY%201990s/wwwvwbugcouk-51.jpg[/IMG]

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 14 November 2009 22:49:26
[quote=JULIANROBINSON][IMG]https://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb123/jrvwjr/VW%20SHOWS%20FROM%20THE%20LATE%201980s%20AND%20EARLY%201990s/wwwvwbugcouk-51.jpg[/IMG][/quote] Is the pre or post crash?

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 14 November 2009 23:29:28

[quote=54 Gertie] Is the pre or post crash? [/quote] Definitly pre crash as it sports its german reg.I would guess the photo was taken 86-87. By the way ,i managed to take a look at your car last week at Slough .looked very nice ,but was'nt too sure about the gaurd dog :lol: .I found a 53 air cleaner that i had been a long time searching for ,did a few circiuts round the stalls and went home .I did spot Oval bug on here to but never got chance to speak .

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 15 November 2009 16:48:19

[quote=Sunroof53] By the way ,i managed to take a look at your car last week at Slough .looked very nice ,but was'nt too sure about the gaurd dog :lol: .I found a 53 air cleaner that i had been a long time searching for ,did a few circiuts round the stalls and went home .I did spot Oval bug on here to but never got chance to speak .[/quote] It's my parents car, I took the username. :wink: But thanks, it is getting there, still need a nice genuine front bumper and to get rid of that Britax however. '53 air cleaner, nice, single strap? We spotted a '54/55 single strap but we were told it was £300, needless to say we didnt leave with it! :lol:

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 15 November 2009 17:27:23
£300 for that filter was crazy,But it did make me feel better about the one i bought.I have never seen one at a show and although it needed part of the strap i jumped in and bought it.I started this thread on the samba 18 months ago and it came back up again recently with a bizarre twist as the next week i finally find one. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=285975

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 15 November 2009 17:36:57

[quote=Sunroof53]£300 for that filter was crazy,But it did make me feel better about the one i bought.I have never seen one at a show and although it needed part of the strap i jumped in and bought it.I started this thread on the samba 18 months ago and it came back up again recently with a bizarre twist as the next week i finally find one. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=285975[/quote] Wow! Good price.8) Who was selling that, I guess you got there pretty early? :wink:

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 15 November 2009 17:55:25
I bought it from the Boss .He was the man who had the split on the trailer outside.He had some nice parts along with the stall behind him.Probably the best stall of the show.

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 15 November 2009 18:18:16
[quote=Sunroof53]I bought it from the Boss .He was the man who had the split on the trailer outside.He had some nice parts along with the stall behind him.Probably the best stall of the show.[/quote] Ah yes, his stall is always sickening. 8)

Posted by: Ovalbug - 15 November 2009 18:49:24

[quote=Sunroof53] I found a 53 air cleaner that i had been a long time searching for ,did a few circiuts round the stalls and went home .I did spot Oval bug on here to but never got chance to speak .[/quote] Congrats on the air cleaner Mike :d , have to confess I wouldn't know what the '53-only item looked like even if it had jumped up from the table at me :lol: . Sorry if I didn't say hello, the only reason being that I didn't see you :lol: , think was too busy running around TRYING to spend some money. Alas, I only bought a £10 brochure as a bit of a consolation, in the main though Slough 2009 me for didn't live up to previous years reputations as a gold-mine of cheap parts (though I know many people did get good deals!). Can't complain though, Slough 2008 got me my '53-only speedo and Slough 2009 got you your air cleaner, so its defo a place to go to hit the jackpot occasionally....:wink:

Posted by: Etzhold1 - 15 November 2009 20:34:58
[quote=Sunroof53]I bought it from the Boss .He was the man who had the split on the trailer outside.He had some nice parts along with the stall behind him.Probably the best stall of the show.[/quote] Can you post a picture from that 53 only air cleaner ! Thanks, Guido

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 15 November 2009 22:03:26
[quote=Etzhold1] Can you post a picture from that 53 only air cleaner ! Thanks, Guido[/quote] There are some photos in the samba link on the previous page. I did post one but it was way bigger than the page.

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 15 November 2009 22:29:44

[quote=Ovalbug] Congrats on the air cleaner Mike :d , have to confess I wouldn't know what the '53-only item looked like even if it had jumped up from the table at me :lol: . Sorry if I didn't say hello, the only reason being that I didn't see you :lol: , think was too busy running around TRYING to spend some money. Alas, I only bought a £10 brochure as a bit of a consolation, in the main though Slough 2009 me for didn't live up to previous years reputations as a gold-mine of cheap parts (though I know many people did get good deals!). Can't complain though, Slough 2008 got me my '53-only speedo and Slough 2009 got you your air cleaner, so its defo a place to go to hit the jackpot occasionally....:wink: [/quote] I agree it wasnt as good as i remember .I used to do a stall there in the mid 90s and slough was always full of goodies.I may try bugfreeze next year.I didnt stay too long ,in fact i meant to go back to get Boss's email for another part but forgot and went home .:oops:

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 15 November 2009 22:33:48
[quote=Etzhold1] Can you post a picture from that 53 only air cleaner ! Thanks, Guido[/quote] Use the link on the previous page to the samba as there is no gallery for such things on here.I will get told off for Hijacking the rattletrap thread.But not from Rob more likely from Standard split :lol:

Posted by: Standard split - 16 November 2009 09:20:08
Hey guys – it's Rattletrap's thread:( Naughty, naughty[-x Smashing picture Julian:beer:

Posted by: Standard split - 17 November 2009 19:19:14

I was looking at my 1949 Beetle and Rattletrap over the weekend – totally at the opposite ends of the originality spectrum:lol: I found this little gem tucked away with other stuff in Rattletrap's glove box. I knew that you can have a single brake light up to 1964 if the car was made that way, but NO BRAKE LIGHTS:shock: I just though they wasn't working:!: No washers, seatbelts or flashing direction signals we all know about (but some MOT stations require the washers?) Just what is the written rule with a car made with no brake lights:p An what so is the rule with no washers and a fixed windscreen:?: Rattletrap it seems can wander around with either registration too, how the hell is that:? [ATTACH]3711[/Attach]

Posted by: Standard split - 18 November 2009 21:19:39
[quote= anonymous] …I'm bored stiff with your comments, your Rattletrap, your 49… [quote] [b]Rattletrap is great though[/b]:beer: 8) Presents please for Rattletrap – [b]this thread is a year old tomorrow[/b]:d

Posted by: harveypj - 18 November 2009 22:52:41
[quote=Standard split][quote= anonymous] …I'm bored stiff with your comments, your Rattletrap, your 49… [quote] [/quote] oh give it a rest will ya. :roll: you asked for a block.....got a block.....now leave it blocked

Posted by: Standard split - 19 November 2009 08:48:52
Fair do's, but it's all banter:wink: On a cheerful note [b]its happy birthday to Rattletrap's thread[/b]:beer: One year old today:o [ATTACH]3717[/Attach] [ATTACH]3718[/Attach]

Posted by: harveypj - 19 November 2009 16:22:49
Happy Birthday :beer:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 19 November 2009 18:03:10
Happy Birthday. John,you're MAD.

Posted by: Standard split - 19 November 2009 18:29:56
[quote=harveypj]Happy Birthday :beer: [/quote] [quote='50 Karmann]Happy Birthday. John,you're MAD.[/quote] Great guys:beer: I'm not mad – just a bit of fun :lol: Seriously now, I've got to go – I've got Rattletrap's cake ready for him :p :p :p :p :p :p :shock:

Posted by: Standard split - 19 November 2009 18:33:19
How it all started…:o We all have to cheer at 7:25 this evening:beer: :beer: [ATTACH]3719[/Attach]

Posted by: pre67vw - 19 November 2009 20:56:53
[quote=Standard split]How it all started…:o [/quote] So when this started, presumably you didn't have Rattletrap otherwise the thread would have probably been over after your first reply - "I have it. the end" Did this thread spark you into tracking it down or was it purely a coincidence?

Posted by: mrsherbie - 20 November 2009 11:49:13
Happy birthday rattletrap from another oily pet magnet :beer: [img]https://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr94/skippy53/50-dexta.jpg[/img] [quote='50 Karmann]Happy Birthday. John,you're MAD.[/quote] But most of my favorite people are :d

Posted by: mrsherbie - 20 November 2009 12:01:10
[img]https://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr94/skippy53/Birthday20petsw.jpg[/img]

Posted by: Standard split - 20 November 2009 14:13:26

[quote=mrsherbie]Happy birthday rattletrap from another oily pet magnet :beer: [img]https://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr94/skippy53/50-dexta.jpg[/img] But most of my favorite people are :d [/quote] Being mad is fun too :p Love the oily pet :d Geezer my cat really loves Rattletrap – he's under it more than any other of the cars I have. When I walk past Rattletrap he shoots out from underneath and rugby tackles me around my ankle. I'm sure I can hear Tony laughing as I walk off with the cat hanging around my leg:d Couldn't find any semi-matt 1947 party hats:roll: "[i]it'll wreck the patina you haven't worked so hard to create[/i]" - 50Karmann – so that's why he's bought a gallon of T Cut, but don't worry, the '49s in an underground bomb-proof bunker:twisted:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 20 November 2009 17:43:03
[quote=Standard split] T Cut [/quote] Don't use that stuff, it's poison.There are far better products on the market.

Posted by: Standard split - 20 November 2009 19:46:50

[quote=pre67vw] So when this started, presumably you didn't have Rattletrap otherwise the thread would have probably been over after your first reply - "I have it. the end" Did this thread spark you into tracking it down or was it purely a coincidence?[/quote] No, it wasn't mine then Rob. I certainly never expected to be lucky enough to own Rattletrap:o It just turned up for sale by sheer chance while the Rattletrap thread was running (see below). Although I followed the advert up quick, Rattletrap was already destined to go abroad, and it seems fate was sealed for Rattletrap. I was very pleased later to be able to secure Rattletrap's future remaining in the UK :wink: It would have been a real shame to lose such a legendary VW with it going abroad 8) [ATTACH]3722[/Attach]

Posted by: JULIANROBINSON - 20 November 2009 20:49:29
[quote=Standard split]Hey guys – it's Rattletrap's thread:( Naughty, naughty[-x Smashing picture Julian:beer: [/quote] I took that picture when I was VERY YOUNG! Long before I could drive :cry:

Posted by: JULIANROBINSON - 20 November 2009 20:50:21
Oh, and if it helps the thread...... [i][b]WIBBLE[/b][/i] :d

Posted by: Standard split - 20 November 2009 21:16:33
[quote=JULIANROBINSON] I took that picture when I was VERY YOUNG! Long before I could drive :cry: [/quote] It's in the Rattletrap collection now, copyright to you of course :beer: A real gem of a picture – thanks:wink:

Posted by: JULIANROBINSON - 20 November 2009 22:27:25
funny how when it was taken I was so young, and knew so little.. I didnt realise that 20 years later anyone would be interested!

Posted by: Standard split - 25 November 2009 09:19:11
[quote=54 Gertie] :wink: Zwitter prototype I think you will find. [-x [/quote] Well at last:beer:

Posted by: Standard split - 25 November 2009 09:21:40
[quote='50 Karmann] Yes with milage records going back to 1950…[/quote] Took you long enough to 'cave in' '50 Karmann:beer: [quote='50 Karmann] Don't use that stuff (T Cut), it's poison.There are far better products on the market.[/quote] I have to use something to help keep Rattletrap's good looks in his advancing years – Rattletrap just has to be shiny:wink:

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 25 November 2009 10:35:02
[quote=Standard split] Well at last:beer: [/quote] I cant quite get across how sarcastic I was being when I wrote that. :wink:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 25 November 2009 18:29:18
[quote=54 Gertie] I cant quite get across how sarcastic I was being when I wrote that. :wink: [/quote] Yeah!me too,guess John just reads things in a different way.

Posted by: Standard split - 25 November 2009 18:51:02
[quote=JD]Rob - can you perhaps add a seperate Rattletrap discussion forum somewhere and move all posts pertaining to said car to it?[/quote] Makes sense to me: [b]Rattletrap's Discussions Pre '53 Discussions 53 – 57 Discussions Split Window Bus Forum Karmann Ghia Forum[/b] [b]Etc, Etc[/b].:lol:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 25 November 2009 19:00:08
[quote=Standard split] Makes sense to me: [b]Rattletrap's Discussions Pre '53 Discussions 53 – 57 Discussions Split Window Bus Forum Karmann Ghia Forum[/b] [b]Etc, Etc[/b].:lol: [/quote] That's a ban then:twisted: John you just can't resist can you? Hovering over your key board with itchy fingers.

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 25 November 2009 19:07:29
[quote=Standard split] Makes sense to me: [b]Rattletrap's Discussions Pre '53 Discussions 53 – 57 Discussions [i][S]Split Window Bus Forum[/S][/i] Karmann Ghia Forum[/b] [b]Etc, Etc[/b].:lol: [/quote] Edited. And indeed, he typed the magic word. :shock: :twisted: :wink:

Posted by: Standard split - 25 November 2009 19:13:55
[quote='50 Karmann] That's a ban then:twisted: John you just can't resist can you? Hovering over your key board with itchy fingers.[/quote] I think (more like hope) that the ban if in force, applies outside the mega-mileage legendary car's own thread:? :?

Posted by: Standard split - 25 November 2009 19:16:56
[quote=54 Gertie] [b]Rattletrap's Discussions Pre '53 Discussions 53 – 57 Discussions Karmann Ghia Forum[/b] [b]Etc, Etc[/b].:lol: Edited. [/quote] Something we agree on:beer:

Posted by: Standard split - 25 November 2009 19:20:55

[quote='50 Karmann] Yeah!me too,guess John just reads things in a different way. [/quote] And there's me thinking that you'd both given in to popular opinion :twisted: [quote=Pricivius] Thanks again everyone for your help - we can't all be megastars like Rattletrap![/quote] Yours is a smashing car and would take pride of place in any collection :beer: It's just that everything pales under Rattletrap's mighty shadow :wink:

Posted by: Standard split - 26 November 2009 09:39:26

[quote=RoRoVw] (I'll bet even Rattletrap can't boast two sets made solely for his personal use!!)[/quote] Rattletrap's just about worn his way through 32 sets of everything during his personal use, one set for each of his 'trips round the planet':shock: [quote=Sunroof53] Definitly pre crash as it sports its german reg.I would guess the photo was taken 86-87 [/quote] Not necessarily correct. Tony used to drive Rattletrap around the UK displaying either registrations. He even had a concession from the DVLA to do so, and was accepted to the police as okay:o Read below:wink: [ATTACH]3738[/Attach]

Posted by: Standard split - 21 December 2009 20:45:48
[ATTACH]3778[/Attach]

Posted by: tguk - 22 December 2009 00:51:36

As the owner of a 60's Beetle back in the early 90's i found myself Googling a few things the other night, and remembered reading about Rattletrap in VolksWorld magazine, and eventually found myself on this site. Before i go on a rant, are the following quotes meant to be for real or just mucking around? [quote]The thread is just like Rattletrap – it can't be killed off Most other threads that have come and gone recently are just not that interesting, so Rattletrap the UK's most famous Volkswagen keeps on hogging the forum George – find yourself your dream car as I have with Rattletrap, and show it on this forum. You'll be a lot more cheery with your postings and maybe steal Rattletrap's limelight. Whatever though, all the history, legend, stories, news articles as well as my and other's enthusiasm for Rattletrap carry forward with the car that is Rattletrap the Volkswagen legend. Yours is a smashing car and would take pride of place in any collection..It's just that everything pales under Rattletrap's mighty shadow.[/quote] Now i have to admit, that it's brilliant news that the car is still around, and has been kept from going abroad, but all of the 'boasting' type posts have taken the wonder off the whole story for me. It's almost as if you think you now have 'lengendary' status in the VW world due to buying the right car. But in my eyes the whole thing was Tony & Rattletrap. It would be a bit like buying the original "Emu" puppet and then thinking that "Rod Hull & Emu" could now magically convert to "John Smith & Emu" ...but it doesn't work like that. Rattletrap became famous due to Tony, and trying to retake the limelight just by getting your hand in your wallett just seems wrong to me. Enjoy the car, but please drop all the "look at me, i own the best vw in the world" stuff, as it really does taint what is a great vw story. I guess i might have taken the whole thing the wrong way, but that's the way it comes across to me. Have a great day.

Posted by: 55Kab - 22 December 2009 04:49:42

Posted by: lifeintheslowlane - 22 December 2009 08:18:12
Ah yes this is a "cobweb" topic set out to trap the unwary. You'll not be the first to have fallen foul of the hairy, eight legged beasties who frequent the dark corners of this site.:lol:

Posted by: pre67vw - 22 December 2009 10:19:55

[quote=tguk]As the owner of a 60's Beetle back in the early 90's i found myself Googling a few things the other night, and remembered reading about Rattletrap in VolksWorld magazine, and eventually found myself on this site. Before i go on a rant, are the following quotes meant to be for real or just mucking around? Now i have to admit, that it's brilliant news that the car is still around, and has been kept from going abroad, but all of the 'boasting' type posts have taken the wonder off the whole story for me. It's almost as if you think you now have 'lengendary' status in the VW world due to buying the right car. But in my eyes the whole thing was Tony & Rattletrap. It would be a bit like buying the original "Emu" puppet and then thinking that "Rod Hull & Emu" could now magically convert to "John Smith & Emu" ...but it doesn't work like that. Rattletrap became famous due to Tony, and trying to retake the limelight just by getting your hand in your wallett just seems wrong to me. Enjoy the car, but please drop all the "look at me, i own the best vw in the world" stuff, as it really does taint what is a great vw story. I guess i might have taken the whole thing the wrong way, but that's the way it comes across to me. Have a great day. [/quote] Wow, you really jumped in with both feet on your first post there didn't you! :lol: There's probably only one person who thinks that Rattletrap is the best VW in the world and he's the one that now owns it. Sure he tries to cause a bit a stir with it every now and again, but thats because that's the only way he can add to it's history - unlike Tony who actually used to [i]drive[/i] it :lol: Welcome to the forum! I hope you see that there's a fair amount of mickey taking that goes on here, hopefully all harmless fun. BTW, it's not with John Smith - but Emu is back on TV 8) [url=https://primetime.unrealitytv.co.uk/emu-returns-to-citv/]https://primetime.unrealitytv.co.uk/emu-returns-to-citv/[/url]

Posted by: GKL 7 - 22 December 2009 18:50:32
[quote=tguk] I guess i might have taken the whole thing the wrong way [/quote] Only part of your post that was correct. :lol: :lol: :lol: WELCOME:lol: :lol: :lol:

Posted by: Standard split - 22 December 2009 20:16:57

[quote=tguk] Now i have to admit, that it's brilliant news that the car is still around, and has been kept from going abroad, but all of the 'boasting' type posts have taken the wonder off the whole story for me. It's almost as if you think you now have 'lengendary' status in the VW world due to buying the right car. But in my eyes the whole thing was Tony & Rattletrap. It would be a bit like buying the original "Emu" puppet and then thinking that "Rod Hull & Emu" could now magically convert to "John Smith & Emu" ...but it doesn't work like that. Rattletrap became famous due to Tony, and trying to retake the limelight just by getting your hand in your wallett just seems wrong to me. Enjoy the car, but please drop all the "look at me, i own the best vw in the world" stuff, as it really does taint what is a great vw story. I guess i might have taken the whole thing the wrong way, but that's the way it comes across to me. [/quote] [b]Gee, such a rant, and all my last post was about getting in the swing of things as its Christmas.[/b]:p :p Surely a return of the greeting I placed would be nice, followed by a couple of comments if you feel the need, that you think my love of dear old Rattletrap is maybe a bit too much for you to stomach. The [i]'megastar'[/i] term was used by Tony himself to describe Rattletrap. It does appear in Tony's stories once or twice in the [i]VW Motoring[/i] articles on his well-known and loved Beetle. However your [i]'retake the limelight just by getting your hand in your wallet '[/i] remark is well below the belt, and to be honest really pi**ed me off, is insulting and one reason for not taking Rattletrap to a VW show, as it bears out a friend of mine's advice about the sort of flack I'd have fired at me.:evil: If you had looked through the Rattletrap thread you wound have seen this, written by me: [i]'Rattletrap was the first Split I ever saw. Back in 1977, and the Queen's Silver Jubilee, while we were waiting for the Queen's open carriage to pass, Rattletrap managed to run across the road junction just before it was closed. It was more of a treat for the young Standard Split than seeing the Queen pass afterwards. [u]That sowed the seed for me to own a Split-Window Beetle when I was able to drive[/u]. More fascinating Rattletrap history. Can't spell out the excitement at seeing the thing back then, I easily remembered the unusual and short registration.'[/i] So you see, Rattletrap was a boyhood fascination for me, and the chance to buy it many years later was incredible, and not one to miss 8) Your comment[i] 'what is a great VW story'[/i] is about the only part of your post that is correct. Rattletrap [b]IS[/b] a great story, or legend if you like, a car that in my and many other's opinion, has done so much to raise interest in the wonderful old cars that we enjoy. With his television appearances and many news and magazine features and articles, Rattletrap has done more than his share to further the love and interest of early VWs 8) One thing I have learned in recent times is that a scruffy maybe non-original old car with a story to tell is more interesting than the low mileage all original car that's done little. My '49 Beetle is an all original, one previous owner, low-mileage completely untouched car [i](no boasting or hand-in-wallet jibes please[/i]), and the nicest Split I have owned or know of. But up against Rattletrap its a little dull with no great history – I know which I would take to a non-VW vintage car show, because I know which the general public would be most interested in, then maybe one or two of them would like to have an early Beetle afterwards too :!: :beer: And its not "[i]look at me, I own the best vw in the world[/i]", as you wrote, that's how you think – I don't have an ego to feed. Despite having some head-turning cars I prefer to travel by bicycle or public bus than show-off in the street as I suspect you might like to do – [b]Its look at Rattletrap, a real VW legend and fantastic old car[/b]. I'm only Rattletrap's keeper at this time, and it is owed to Tony and this incredible old car not to let the legend fade away, forgotten :beer: Well tguk, I hope that you have joined us for more than firing off like that – add some interesting items to the forum :o Once again, Season's Greetings, and from Rattletrap too :wink: [quote=pre67vw] There's probably only one person who thinks that Rattletrap is the best VW in the world and he's the one that now owns it. Sure he tries to cause a bit a stir with it every now and again, but thats because that's the only way he can add to it's history - unlike Tony who actually used to [i]drive[/i] it :lol: [/quote] Thanks for the support Rob, I do think a lot of Rattletrap, he's great, but I seriously don't think I'm alone:!: Yes I did let off with both barrels here, and yes our new friend should see that most of us are into our hobby for some good fun, non serious enjoyment and a little good humored leg pulling :lol: [ATTACH]3779[/Attach]

Posted by: GKL 7 - 22 December 2009 20:24:08
John,i'd wish you a Happy Christmas but why lie,the HIT is in place,so why be two faced.

Posted by: Standard split - 22 December 2009 20:31:16
[quote='50 Karmann]John,i'd wish you a Happy Christmas but why lie,the HIT is in place,so why be two faced.[/quote] I'll be watching out for the big army tank when I'm out Christmas shopping then – I'll warn the bus driver :shock: Happy Christmas to you none the less George – find yourself a better HIT man for next year :p

Posted by: GKL 7 - 22 December 2009 20:40:10
[ATTACH]3780[/Attach]

Posted by: 55Kab - 22 December 2009 20:42:54
[quote=Standard split]he's great[/quote] and so you confirmed it John, he's a "he". :lol:

Posted by: Standard split - 22 December 2009 21:04:26

[quote=55Kab] and so you confirmed it John, he's a "he". :lol: [/quote] I'm not sure that a 'she' would have the stamina to travel the equivalent of over 32 times around the globe as Rattletrap has done, so a 'he' Rattletrap must be :lol: I'd like to think I have the stamina to spend an evening with '50 Karmann's beauty (above) though. Even nicer on the eye than the back of a Split Window Beetle :!:

Posted by: Standard split - 22 December 2009 21:28:05
Once again for those that may have missed it, lost several places back: [ATTACH]3782[/Attach]

Posted by: Standard split - 23 December 2009 10:28:25

[quote=54 Gertie] Yet calling one a megastar is completely normal, interesting. Will you not be celebrating old Rattletraps birthday then John? Thinking about it, it'll have at least three birthdays in the years depending on who you talk to. :lol: [/quote] Rattletrap's very special though:d 'Megastar' is a good description of Rattletrap, Tony was happy with using the term for him. If a stuffed Emu (aka Rod Hull) can be a Megastar, so can Rattletrap, which he is anyway. Three birthdays indeed:evil: I couldn't afford that:lol: [quote=fugazi kid]its just nice to know when your car was built thats all, now giving your car a name now that is real sad.[/quote] I must admit that I would have agreed with you a year ago. But Rattletrap has a name that is universally accepted and known. It's the story as much as the car, which itself has developed a persona. None of my other cars have a name nor a 'he' or 'she' – they are all just an 'it'. [b]Rattletrap is beyond any other Volkswagen in charm, standing and legend.[/b] [b]Please do not compare a regular Volkswagen with Rattletrap[/b] [-x By the way, no birthday just a 'builtday' for cars – I've yet to see one give birth. Rattletrap has birthdays though, because no-one really knows how he came to be, the bickering and arguing of opinions earlier throughout this thread over many months by many people proves that :lol: :wink: ([i][b]I've put the replies from other threads above because Rob gets annoyed at Rattletrap continually hijacking threads and hogging the whole forum[/b][/i]) :roll: Remember the post (below) that you put on this thread way back, George – [b]well you sure were right [/b]:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: [quote='50 Karmann] … you could have some great fun with Rattletrap John…:lol: [/quote]

Posted by: Standard split - 22 January 2010 18:15:49
No more emails please! The 'abandoned' London Split Window Beetle is not for sale :twisted:

Posted by: 55Kab - 23 January 2010 18:54:51
[quote=Standard split]No more emails please! The 'abandoned' London Split Window Beetle is not for sale[/quote] That'll teach you for posting pics like that! :lol:

Posted by: Standard split - 04 February 2010 21:11:01

People are continuing to take a swipe at poor old [i]Rattletrap[/i], elsewhere, on other threads :evil: This relates to comment on the '50 in Volksworld thread – [quote=Etzhold& JD] Huh sounds almost like a second ratle trap story to me !![/quote] Okay, so [i]Rattletrap[/i] has also been cut around a little but he's still a De-Luxe Zwitter and not masquerading as a Sunroof or some other different model. The Volksworld featured '50 pretending to be something it is not – a Sunroof model – is maybe opening 'the cracks'; in the Vintage VW scene, or 'dividing it' as Volksworld suggests :twisted: [i]R[/i][i]attletrap[/i]'s a legend, of which the car discussed on the '50 in Volksworld thread does not come close [-x [i]Rattletra[/i]p hasn't created a divide in the Vintage VW Scene – if anything he's enlarged the scene with all his publicity and fame – TV, newspaper, magazine and countless show appearances – bringing enthusiasts, both purists like us and the non-purists together 8) [i]The usually meek Rattletrap was starting to get annoyed, well certainly a little rattled.[/i] [ATTACH]3961[/Attach]

Posted by: Standard split - 25 February 2010 09:12:49
[quote=JD] Frankensteins monster...? Stitched together from assorted body parts? :shock: (Should be right up Standard Splits street then:lol: )[/quote] Leave poor old Frankensplit, I mean er… [i]Rattletrap[/i] alone [-x :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Posted by: Cog - 07 March 2010 09:39:02
What ever happend to Tony Levy? I met him in Terrys Beetles around (I think) 1989 with Rattletrap there badly damaged. Tony was chatty and friendly and happy to discuss the accident which had recently been in the VW news at the time (probably Volksworld). So what happend to him and Rattletrap immediately after he passed away?

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 07 March 2010 13:16:43
[img]https://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs397.snc3/24132_1350539757107_1039749380_2956545_7963901_n.jpg[/img]

Posted by: Standard split - 09 March 2010 20:35:47

[quote=Cog]What ever happend to Tony Levy? I met him in Terrys Beetles around (I think) 1989 with [i]Rattletrap[/i] there badly damaged. Tony was chatty and friendly and happy to discuss the accident which had recently been in the VW news at the time (probably Volksworld). So what happend to him and [i]Rattletrap[/i] immediately after he passed away?[/quote] Hi Cog, I too found Tony was chatty and always pleased to discuss [i]Rattletrap[/i], the car was his life, and really meant so much to him :wink: As for[i] Rattletrap[/i], after his big smash, he underwent to biggest rebuild in the history of the Beetle, which was followed throughout by the VW world with great interest 8) I have been very fortunate to have become [i]Rattletrap's[/i] new owner, so he is still in the UK :beer: [img]https://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs397.snc3/24132_1350539757107_1039749380_2956545_7963901_n.jpg[/img] Thanks 54 Gertie for the new picture, so many of [i]Rattletrap's[/i] pictures show the mileage on that board that I can place them in the correct order of age :beer: I think [i]Rattletrap[/i] misses Tony a little… [ATTACH]4162[/Attach]

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 20 March 2010 17:01:00
[img]https://home.btconnect.com/oakley-web/DSC08527.JPG[/img]

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 23 March 2010 20:00:46

Interesting letter from Mr Tony Levy written in May 1963. Note, that he clearly states that his car is a "1953" model. Several other personal references to his car from 1962 to 1965 state exactly the same thing. No mention of a 'special prototype' or '1950 model' car. I wonder exactly when Tony fabricated the story about it being something is isn't? [img]https://home.btconnect.com/oakley-web/DSC08616.JPG[/img]

Posted by: Ovaltine - 09 April 2010 11:22:28

Saw this iconic mega-mile old VW up for sale about a year ago and it was sold before I had a chance. used to see it regularly at VW meets during the 1970s and 1980's and loved reading the updates in safer vw? motoring of Rattletrap's adventures with Tony and its 'resurrection' form the big smash. I searched the web for it and found this site. Without trawling through the whole of this thread I can say Tony Levy was always keen to discuss his car and with enthusiasm, and some of the comments made here about him are unjust. Why are there so many VW 'enthusiasts' here trying to discredit it, falling over themselves to show it is something else, as well as being a little unkind to Tony. Whatever it is it is a very well known and historic VW that's certainly done an amazing mileage I see its fallen into the hands of someone that thinks that he can just dive into the VW scene and be at the top just by getting famous old Beetle. Its Tony and Rattletrap not Standard T**t and Rattletrap and will always be so in my mind. Sorry to let off abit:!:

Posted by: pre67vw - 09 April 2010 11:58:35

Firstly, welcome to the forum! [quote=Ovaltine]Without trawling through the whole of this thread[/quote] :roll: glad to see you're willing to wage in without reading it all... [quote=Ovaltine]Why are there so many VW 'enthusiasts' here trying to discredit it, falling over themselves to show it is something else[/quote] I don't think anyone is disputing that it's an iconic car in the hobby - or intends any disrespect to Tony Levy. However, there is some inconsistencies on Tony's claims - with early documentation stating it's a '53 and later claims that it was a '50 prototype. Then when the car was restored after it's smash, there is some debate about how much of the original car remained. I don't see any problem with discussing these issues? (apart from the fact that it just gets dull) [quote=Ovaltine]I see its fallen into the hands of someone that thinks that he can just dive into the VW scene and be at the top just by getting famous old Beetle[/quote] This statement couldn't be more wrong, it's fallen into the hands of a long time VW enthusiast who has loved the car for decades. I wouldn't put Rattletrap at the top either, Standard Split has a few cars I'd put above that car anyday.

Posted by: Ovaltine - 09 April 2010 12:12:55

Sorry its comments like [quote=Rich Oakley]I met Tony a couple of times. The last time was in 1996 at Peppercorn where he displayed the car. Whenever I spoke to him, he seemed quite rude and he certainly didn't seem interetsed in answering my questions about the authenticity of his 'experimental car' claim, so from that point on, I've always dismissed the story as utter bullsh*t.[/quote] I did not find this at all! [quote=pre67vw] This statement couldn't be more wrong, it's fallen into the hands of a long time VW enthusiast who has loved the car for decades. I wouldn't put Rattletrap at the top either, Standard Split has a few cars I'd put above that car anyday.[/quote] Okay a bit OTT - maybe I'm peeved I missed the car:oops:

Posted by: pre67vw - 09 April 2010 12:16:06
[quote=Ovaltine] Okay a bit OTT - maybe I'm peeved I missed the car:oops: [/quote] Why? did you want to dive into the VW scene and be at the top just by getting famous old Beetle? :wink: :lol:

Posted by: Ovaltine - 09 April 2010 12:17:35
:oops:

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 09 April 2010 13:44:52
You really need to read the whole thread to get the big picture .The car has gone to a good home but doubt we will ever see it again .Well,unless 50 Karmann's hit man pulls his finger out :twisted:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 09 April 2010 19:52:02

[quote=Ovaltine] I see its fallen into the hands of someone that thinks that he can just dive into the VW scene and be at the top just by getting famous old Beetle. Its Tony and Rattletrap not Standard T**t and Rattletrap and will always be so in my mind. Sorry to let off abit:!: [/quote] OK!John(Standardsplit) and i share very different opinions concerning our hobby,but i'm not having this. If you were around the VW scene in the 70/80's as you say you were, you would know who John is,the cars he has owned and the good he has done for the hobby. He hasn't just dived in and he is not trying to satisfy anything but his passion for what he loves. Rattletrap is hardly the "TOP",but a famous old car from the British VW circuit,and if you had read the whole post you would have realised John had loved this car since he was a boy and forfilled a 30+ year old ambition to own the car. And why if you are going to call names,why not call names why hide behind ****. Certain areas of Rattletraps history are very dubious and have been proven so. Motto.....read the WHOLE post before you jump in with both feet and it also helps if you are in possesion of the facts NOT what you believe to be true. p.s i'll give you the *******'s,i've just noticed when sending E.T a PM you can't swear on here,even if you try:lol:

Posted by: Robb - 09 April 2010 21:21:24
any plans to bring it to Stanford Hall? :)

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 09 April 2010 22:10:38

[quote=Ovaltine] Sorry its comments like [quote=Rich Oakley]"I met Tony a couple of times. The last time was in 1996 at Peppercorn where he displayed the car. Whenever I spoke to him, he seemed quite rude and he certainly didn't seem interetsed in answering my questions about the authenticity of his 'experimental car' claim, so from that point on, I've always dismissed the story as utter bullsh*t.[/quote] I did not find this at all! [/quote] Sorry, but I found him to be abrasive and disinterested whenever I walked over to have a chat with him about his car's history. Maybe I caught him on several bad days. Despite the car's iconic status, it has a strangely mythical history and even Tony admitted this in his letter to the VWOC (GB) in his letter dated 1963 (see previous page). The current owner, Sir John 'secret squirrel' Miller, has been a devout split window Beetle enthusiast since 1947. PS: Welcome to the forum :lol: :beer:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 09 April 2010 22:24:04
[quote=Rich Oakley] a devout split window Beetle enthusiast since 1947. [/quote] Gosh!! he's looking well on it.

Posted by: Standard split - 09 April 2010 22:44:23

Standard Split had more or less decided not to make further posts as he felt that he'd had his fair share of flak recently. But taking flak from newbies is something else. Are these two related :? [quote=Ovaltine]Saw this iconic mega-mile old VW up for sale about a year ago and it was sold before I had a chance. used to see it regularly at VW meets during the 1970s and 1980's and loved reading the updates in safer vw? motoring of Rattletrap's adventures with Tony and its 'resurrection' form the big smash. I searched the web for it and found this site. Without trawling through the whole of this thread I can say Tony Levy was always keen to discuss his car and with enthusiasm, and some of the comments made here about him are unjust. Why are there so many VW 'enthusiasts' here trying to discredit it, falling over themselves to show it is something else, as well as being a little unkind to Tony. Whatever it is it is a very well known and historic VW that's certainly done an amazing mileage I see its fallen into the hands of someone that thinks that he can just dive into the VW scene and be at the top just by getting famous old Beetle. Its Tony and Rattletrap not Standard T**t and Rattletrap and will always be so in my mind. Sorry to let off abit:!: [/quote] [quote=tguk]As the owner of a 60's Beetle back in the early 90's i found myself Googling a few things the other night, and remembered reading about Rattletrap in VolksWorld magazine, and eventually found myself on this site. Before i go on a rant, are the following quotes meant to be for real or just mucking around? Now i have to admit, that it's brilliant news that the car is still around, and has been kept from going abroad, but all of the 'boasting' type posts have taken the wonder off the whole story for me. It's almost as if you think you now have 'lengendary' status in the VW world due to buying the right car. But in my eyes the whole thing was Tony & Rattletrap. It would be a bit like buying the original "Emu" puppet and then thinking that "Rod Hull & Emu" could now magically convert to "John Smith & Emu" ...but it doesn't work like that. Rattletrap became famous due to Tony, and trying to retake the limelight just by getting your hand in your wallett just seems wrong to me. Enjoy the car, but please drop all the "look at me, i own the best vw in the world" stuff, as it really does taint what is a great vw story. I guess i might have taken the whole thing the wrong way, but that's the way it comes across to me. Have a great day. [/quote] These one-posters are not what makes the forum interesting, or for building on the community feeling that the pre67VW site has. You can bet that like tguk, Ovaltime has put the boot in and run off never to post again. I wonder if these individuals away from their hiding place behind the computer screen would make their comments to my face :evil:

Posted by: Standard split - 09 April 2010 22:47:05
[quote=Robb]any plans to bring it to Stanford Hall? :)[/quote] Can't imagine the flak I might get there – I've had plenty here recently:evil:

Posted by: Standard split - 09 April 2010 22:50:41
[quote=Rich Oakley] The current owner, Sir John 'secret squirrel' Miller, has been a devout split window Beetle enthusiast since 1947. PS: Welcome to the forum :lol: :beer: [/quote] Yes, I drove my Mum to infant school in a brand-new 1947 split you know :shock: :evil:

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 09 April 2010 23:23:34
Its a shame you feel like that Standard split,but you have to take the rough with the smooth on any forum and i personally think you owe it to Rt and its supporters to attend at least one more show.I think you would be surprised at the positive interest it would create.

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 09 April 2010 23:28:20

[quote=Standard split] Can't imagine the flak I might get there – I've had plenty here recently:evil: [/quote] I honestly think most would just wonder past thinking "what a nice Zwitter", and a few "oldies" or people from off here would love to have a nose about. 8) And as you said, unlike on your other cars, adding miles to old Rattletap would increase his value no end. :wink: C'mon, bring it to Stanford Hall. :d

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 09 April 2010 23:34:04
[quote=Standard split] Yes, I drove my Mum to infant school in a brand-new 1947 split you know :shock: :evil: [/quote] Mind you, Stanford is a long drive for someone in there 80's.maybe a house party instead :d

Posted by: Robb - 09 April 2010 23:53:21
[quote=Standard split] Can't imagine the flak I might get there – I've had plenty here recently:evil: [/quote] naa bring it. People hide behind computers with their opinions. Bring it out, I'd love to see it. Aren't classic cars there for admiring?!

Posted by: pre67vw - 10 April 2010 00:01:09
[quote=54 Gertie] I honestly think most would just wonder past thinking "what a nice Zwitter" [/quote] I think most people would wander past and say "slam it on earless"...

Posted by: 55Kab - 10 April 2010 00:08:44
[quote=pre67vw]I think most people would wander past and say "slam it on earless and fit a narrowed front beam"...[/quote] Fixed that for you... :lol:

Posted by: 55Kab - 10 April 2010 00:12:09
[quote=Sunroof53]i personally think you owe it to Rt and its supporters to attend at least one more show.I think you would be surprised at the positive interest it would create.[/quote] Well said Mike. Come on John.....Tony was never afraid to have Rattletrap out and about so I think you owe it not just to us but to Rattletrap himself to give him a little outing or two. :beer:

Posted by: Ovaltine - 10 April 2010 11:39:40

[quote='50 Karmann] OK!John(Standardsplit) and i share very different opinions concerning our hobby,but i'm not having this. If you were around the VW scene in the 70/80's as you say you were, you would know who John is,the cars he has owned and the good he has done for the hobby. He hasn't just dived in and he is not trying to satisfy anything but his passion for what he loves. Rattletrap is hardly the "TOP",but a famous old car from the British VW circuit,and if you had read the whole post you would have realised John had loved this car since he was a boy and forfilled a 30+ year old ambition to own the car. And why if you are going to call names,why not call names why hide behind ****. Certain areas of Rattletraps history are very dubious and have been proven so. Motto.....read the WHOLE post before you jump in with both feet and it also helps if you are in possesion of the facts NOT what you believe to be true. p.s i'll give you the *******'s,i've just noticed when sending E.T a PM you can't swear on here,even if you try:lol: [/quote] No swearing meant the T**t was Twit - Ive now realised it looked like Tw*t if you see what I mean:? Wrong to use on either count though Nice to see you all rally round when someone pokes a stick into the nest

Posted by: Standard split - 12 April 2010 14:31:26

[quote=Rich Oakley] The current owner, Sir John 'secret squirrel' Miller, has been a devout split window Beetle enthusiast since 1947. [/quote] [quote='50 Karmann] Gosh!! he's looking well on it.[/quote] [quote=Sunroof53] Mind you, Stanford is a long drive for someone in there 80's.maybe a house party instead :d [/quote] [quote=Ovaltine] No swearing meant the T**t was Twit… [/quote] The ancient 'Standard Twit' is planning to be at Lavenham Vintage VW show if he's still around. Now here comes the 'Twit's' question – when is Lavenham? Not more than 3 weeks away I hope, may not last that long:evil: [ATTACH]4298[/Attach]

Posted by: pre67vw - 12 April 2010 14:47:19
[quote=Standard split] Now here comes the 'Twit's' question – when is Lavenham? Not more than 3 weeks away I hope, may not last that long:evil: [/quote] [i]IF[/i] there is another one, it won't be until 2012

Posted by: Standard split - 12 April 2010 15:22:36
[quote=pre67vw] [i]IF[/i] there is another one, it won't be until 2012[/quote] Hell, you'll need to come and dig me up :shock: Poor [i]Rattletrap's[/i] 13 years older than me – he'll have disintegrated to a pile of dust by then :(

Posted by: pre67vw - 12 April 2010 15:40:42
[quote=Standard split] Poor [i]Rattletrap's[/i] 13 years older than me – he'll have disintegrated to a pile of dust by then :( [/quote] Nah, most of it's much younger than that :wink: :lol:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 12 April 2010 19:34:07
[quote=pre67vw] Nah, most of it's much younger than that :wink: :lol: [/quote] :lol: :lol: Line of the day,that one:lol: :lol:

Posted by: JD - 13 April 2010 10:36:15
[quote=pre67vw] Nah, most of it's much younger than that :wink: :lol: [/quote] Roffle!:lol:

Posted by: 48REME - 14 April 2010 17:29:58
[quote=pre67vw] [i]IF[/i] there is another one, it won't be until 2012[/quote] IF? This word scares me Rob...! :(

Posted by: pre67vw - 14 April 2010 21:24:52

[quote=48REME] IF? This word scares me Rob...! :( [/quote] I just don't think it should be taken for granted that there will be another one. The first one was a success in my opinion, which means another one is a strong possibility - but it depends on a lot of people to make it happen, not just the organisers but the town council - and also of course the people who help by getting involved with their cars etc. Treat each show as though it might be the last, because one day you'll be right :wink:

Posted by: 48REME - 15 April 2010 16:07:29
Surely the council must be impressed by the way it went last time, so they shouldn't hesitate to support the team this time.:wink:

Posted by: pre67vw - 15 April 2010 16:55:08
[quote=48REME]Surely the council must be impressed by the way it went last time, so they shouldn't hesitate to support the team this time.:wink: [/quote] I hope so! but lets not hijack the Rattletrap thread too much - people might start reading it again :wink: :lol:

Posted by: Ovaltine - 15 April 2010 17:23:24

[quote=Standard split] The ancient 'Standard Twit' is planning to be at Lavenham Vintage VW show if he's still around. [/quote] [quote=48REME]Surely the council must be impressed by the way it went last time, so they shouldn't hesitate to support the team this time.:wink: [/quote] I'm sure once the council and organisers find out that Standard Splits going to take the famous Rattletrap there the show will be a certainty :lol:

Posted by: Standard split - 20 April 2010 19:56:47

[quote=Sunroof53] …I personally think you owe it to Rt and its supporters to attend at least one more show.I think you would be surprised at the positive interest it would create.[/quote] [quote=55Kab] Well said Mike. Come on John.....Tony was never afraid to have Rattletrap out and about so I think you owe it not just to us but to Rattletrap himself to give him a little outing or two. :beer: [/quote] [quote=pre67vw] [i]IF[/i] there is another one, (Lavenham) it won't be until 2012[/quote] [quote=Ovaltine] I'm sure once the council and organisers find out that Standard Splits going to take the famous Rattletrap there the show will be a certainty :lol: [/quote] I was considering taking my '49 to Lavenham, being not too far from London (on a trailer though :oops: ). But I guess it's true – it would have to be [i]Rattletrap[/i] the VW legend and star – but not on a trailer, he needs the extra miles on the clock :!: [b]Okay Lavenham organisers and local council – it's a promise [i]Rattletrap[/i] will be there, so get the show on the road[/b] :beer:

Posted by: 55Kab - 21 April 2010 07:44:56
[quote=Standard split]it's a promise [i]Rattletrap[/i] will be there, so get the show on the road[/b] :beer: [/quote] 8) :d I'd fly back from the Middle East just to see that :!:

Posted by: Standard split - 21 April 2010 15:22:09

[quote=55Kab] 8) :d I'd fly back from the Middle East just to see that :!: [/quote] [b]Well Lavenham will be a certainty now that [i]Rattletrap's[/i] going to be centre stage there[/b] :beer: They'll all be running round each other to have the show ready for 2012. Maybe it should be named the [i]Rattletrap VW Event at Lavenham[/i] 8) Have your air ticket to hand, and let's hope the Icelandic's get their volcano sorted out by then. [i]Rattletrap[/i] won't take kindly to volcanic ash in his air cleaner :lol:

Posted by: Standard split - 22 April 2010 12:29:01
[quote=55Kab] H'mmm, yes I think so as I was thinking about a famous black 53 (or is that 50!) Split Beetle! Think you should stand for the "We follow Rattletrap party"...:wink: [/quote] You have a good point – I'm working on it :p [b]Oh BTW he's a '50, Tony would know…[/b]:wink: [ATTACH]4343[/Attach]

Posted by: pre67vw - 22 April 2010 13:09:48
So it's a completely standard 1950 (with a prototype oval dash?) that does over 80mph and averages 46mpg? And he never as much as changed the oil... I'm starting to think maybe the Herbie movies were actually documentries...

Posted by: 48REME - 22 April 2010 14:23:14
Baronsmede, Ealing, London W5...funny...it's where my mother's carpenter used to live:wink:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 22 April 2010 19:12:20
[quote=pre67vw]So it's a completely standard 1950 (with a prototype oval dash?) that does over 80mph and averages 46mpg? And he never as much as changed the oil... I'm starting to think maybe the Herbie movies were actually documentries...[/quote] That's Funny:lol:

Posted by: Standard split - 22 April 2010 21:22:06

[quote=pre67vw]So it's a completely standard 1950 (with a prototype oval dash?) that does over 80mph and averages 46mpg? And he never as much as changed the oil... I'm starting to think maybe the Herbie movies were actually documentries...[/quote] Nah, Herbie is a fictional nonsense, whereas [i]Rattletrap[/i] is a reality 8) I think that Tony was reading [i]Rattletrap's[/i] speedo which is kilometers, so I guess 80kms per hour would be about right. The oil was probably changed when each knackered engine was swapped. As for the 46mpg, he did seem to spend a lot of his journeys pushing [i]Rattletrap[/i] judging by his writings:lol: I don't think numbers were Tony's strongest point.:?

Posted by: pre67vw - 23 April 2010 12:57:15

It would be nice if not every thread on the forum ended up talking about Rattletrap, please try and keep Rattletrap discussions to this thread only :wink: [quote=Standard split] [b]Makes Tony Levy's 1950 Zwitter pre-production prototype claim for [i]Rattletrap's[/i] unusual features seem more plausible for sure[/b] :wink: [/quote] I think it would be pretty straight forward to settle this argument, just send the chassis number off to VW and get a birth certificate. The birth certificate will have the year of manufacture on it, job done. But I don't think you want to do that, you'd rather try and keep the legend alive. Maybe we can have a whip around and I'll send off for it... [quote=Standard split] I don't think numbers were Tony's strongest point :? [/quote] :lol: :lol:

Posted by: 55Kab - 23 April 2010 22:06:05
[ATTACH]4352[/Attach]

Posted by: 55Kab - 23 April 2010 22:07:31
[ATTACH]4353[/Attach]

Posted by: 55Kab - 23 April 2010 22:08:49
[ATTACH]4354[/Attach]

Posted by: Standard split - 24 April 2010 14:31:45

[quote=pre67vw]I think it would be pretty straight forward to settle this argument, just send the chassis number off to VW and get a birth certificate. The birth certificate will have the year of manufacture on it, job done. But I don't think you want to do that, you'd rather try and keep the legend alive. Maybe we can have a whip around and I'll send off for it... [/quote] I think Rob's missed the point of what I was trying to say, in that I don't think that Volkswagen's records are 100% accurate, shown by the odd list of Deluxe items that they say were apparently fitted to my old 1953 rock-bottom RHD Standard Model - UK reg LOW514, when I know the car for a start had no '[b]trim strips[/b]' or '[b]chrome front indicators[/b]' ([i]on a semaphore car![/i]) and not much else :? I don't think it too mad to consider that when making the first major changes to the company's survival bread and butter car that they would build a few experimental cars first, as a tryout rather than gamble wrecking the sales surge of their product and then sinking. So, as their records don't show numbers or info for these few cars - for me this doesn't mean it didn't happen. As for [i]Rattletrap's[/i] numbers, the clearly shown body number, 115511 makes it a 1950 according to the Samba listings (and blows out the '[i]its really an oval body with a split window grafted in[/i]' theory that some here love to pedal). The chassis number is hardly visible and I haven't yet discovered the ID plate which is not behind the spare. What would I gain by sending a request in to VW :?: [b]55Kab - brilliant[/b]:beer: I really wanted to get a copy of that [i]VWM[/i] cover and feature, it's straight into the [i]Ratteltrap[/i] collection. Big thanks to you, 54 Gertie and everyone else that has posted [i]Rattletrap[/i] items here. Keep 'em coming :d

Posted by: GKL 7 - 24 April 2010 15:02:02
I have always found Volkswagens records regarding chassis numbers to be spot on. [ATTACH]4357[/Attach]

Posted by: pre67vw - 24 April 2010 16:00:14
[quote=VW Stan]In the August 73 Safer Motoring there's their first 'ancient beetles register' list and Tony states that it's a 1951 and the chassis number is 1-0433703 (Which makes it early 53!) :wink: [/quote] If the current chassis number is different then that doesn't make it an experimental car, just makes it a zwitter on a 1950 chassis...

Posted by: pre67vw - 24 April 2010 16:01:52
[quote='50 Karmann]I have always found Volkswagens records regarding chassis numbers to be spot on.[/quote] I agree.:beer:

Posted by: Ovaltine - 24 April 2010 16:43:44
A car of such significance should be in the hands of someone who will put it back on the show circuit, with VW GB or in a national transport museum :evil:

Posted by: Standard split - 26 April 2010 15:30:08
[quote=pre67vw] If the current chassis number is different then that doesn't make it an experimental car, just makes it a zwitter on a 1950 chassis...[/quote] Point still missed – this 'Zwitter' body has a 1950 number :wink: https://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx60/rattletrapvw/RattleHeadAche.jpg [ATTACH]4381[/Attach]

Posted by: pre67vw - 26 April 2010 15:39:09
[quote=Standard split] Point still missed – this 'Zwitter' body has a 1950 number :wink:[/quote] :roll: so if I weld in a 1950 body number into my cabrio, does that make mine an 'experimental' cabrio made in 1950? Body number counts for very little in my book, especially on a car that's had an extensive amount of work done to it.

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 26 April 2010 16:18:23
Besides the above, you did not post a photo of the number so i call bluff.The car was destined for the VW museum but after an inspection they backed out.This was documented in one of the VW motoring features written by Tony. :twisted:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 26 April 2010 18:36:28
[quote=pre67vw] :roll: so if I weld in a 1950 body number into my cabrio, does that make mine an 'experimental' cabrio made in 1950? Body number counts for very little in my book, especially on a car that's had an extensive amount of work done to it.[/quote] I'm in on that one with you Rob.This time next year we could be Millionaires:shock:

Posted by: Standard split - 27 April 2010 15:16:03
[quote='50 Karmann]I'm in on that one with you Rob.This time next year we could be Millionaires:shock: [/quote] :lol: Morecombe and Wise, The Two Ronnies, Cannon and Ball, The Chuckle Brothers, Rod Hull and Emu, Tony and [i]Rattletrap[/i] – now the all new double act [b]pre67vw and '50 Karmann[/b] :lol:

Posted by: Ovaltine - 27 April 2010 19:39:40
[quote=pre67vw]:roll: so if I weld in a 1950 body number into my cabrio, does that make mine an 'experimental' cabrio made in 1950? Body number counts for very little in my book, especially on a car that's had an extensive amount of work done to it.[/quote] So you'd buy a car on the strength of a chassis number:roll: Yeh, like no one ever changes the chassis numbers on cars [-x

Posted by: GKL 7 - 27 April 2010 20:04:44
[quote=Ovaltine]So you'd buy a car on the strength of a chassis number:roll: Yeh, like no one ever changes the chassis numbers on cars [-x [/quote] Ovaltine,you're sending us all to sleep:roll:

Posted by: Standard split - 28 April 2010 20:38:58

[quote=Ovaltine]A car of such significance should be in the hands of someone who will put it back on the show circuit, with VW GB or in a national transport museum :evil: [/quote] [i]Rattletrap[/i] would be the very last car I'd part with out of my collection – in fact he's now listed in my will – you never know [i]'50 Karmann's[/i] bungling 'hit' may manage to pull the job off some day :shock: Its like Tony used to say, he'd never sell [i]Rattletrap[/i] and keep him to the very end, which he did, despite getting good offers ('[i]the sun the moon and the stars[/i]' to quote Tony) for the car. Anyway, I doubt many could afford [i]Rattletrap[/i] at what his real worth is :roll: I do hope to get [i]Rattletrap[/i] to some VW and classic car shows (Lavenham VW event 2012 is in the [i]Rattletrap[/i] diary, Lavenham Council are already building a marble plinth to stand him on).:wink:

Posted by: Standard split - 29 April 2010 13:02:32

Posted by: pre67vw - 29 April 2010 14:58:27

[quote=Standard split]Okay, so what is the method today of contacting Volkswagen for a 'birth certificate' for your vintage VW :?: Is there an internet or email method, or is it just good old 'snail mail' :? Whatever it is though, can someone provide current details so I can get to the bottom of it all and have [i]Rattletrap's[/i] year(s) of birth(s) at hand :p [/quote] You can do it online: [url=https://automuseum.volkswagen.de/urkunden.html]https://automuseum.volkswagen.de/urkunden.html[/url] I had to use the Google translator to find out what it said: [quote]They have a Volkswagen and want to know more about its history? Request our vehicle identity certificate for only 35,00 €. Here's how: Just enter your name and the VIN number on the form. Motor data may not be published for privacy reasons. If you tell us, however, the engine number of your vehicle, we can check whether it is the original engine. All other data, we search for you and send you the certificate in the mail. Please note that may be due to the variety of requests and the costly search, the processing time of about four weeks. Name: VIN: Model (if known): Motor number (if known): Payment: Prepayment Credit card [/quote]

Posted by: 55Kab - 29 April 2010 15:16:38

[quote=Standard split]Whatever it is though, can someone provide current details so I can get to the bottom of it all and have [i]Rattletrap's[/i] year(s) of birth(s) at hand :p[/quote] Don't do it :!: It would be like opening pandora's box :!: The guessing and not really knowing what year the original [i]Rattletrap[/i] was, and then whether House of Haselock used an Oval shell in the rebuild is all part of the mystique of what makes [i]Rattletrap[/i]...[i]Rattletrap[/i]

Posted by: GKL 7 - 29 April 2010 17:59:54
[quote=55Kab]Don't do it :!: It would be like opening pandora's box :!:[/quote] Let's have the Truth. You can ring up or fax and a nice German lady will take your payment card details and send you a birth certificate. Should be quite quick, as they will only have to go back as far as the seventies records, to find a 1303's chassis numbers details.

Posted by: Standard split - 29 April 2010 19:15:02

[quote=VW]Request our vehicle identity certificate for only 35,00 €. Please note that may be due to the variety of requests and the costly search, the processing time of about four weeks.[/quote] I'm tearing my hair out on this one. They'll probably end-up searching out the details of four different Beetles that make up [i]Rattletrap[/i] (I call him the [i][i]Fab Four[/i][/i] now as well as [i]Frankensplit[/i]).:? Will end up: [i]Please note that it may be due to the variety of requests and the very, very costly search, the processing time of about four months and two computer replacements, with the issuing of four birth cerftificates and a final cost to you of 3,500.000 €[/i].:shock: [quote=55Kab]Don't do it :!: It would be like opening pandora's box :!: The guessing and not really knowing what year the original [i]Rattlestrap[/i] was, and then whether House of Haselock used an Oval shell in the rebuild is all part of the mystique of what makes [i]Rattletrap[/i]...[i]Rattletrap[/i] [/quote] Words of wisdom from 55Kab, but I think the mystique would still remain after VW have surely given up on old [i]Rattletrap[/i] themselves :roll: [b]AND ANYWAY, WHAT THE HELL INFORMATION DO I SEND VW[/b]:?: :oops:

Posted by: Sunroof53 - 29 April 2010 19:19:48
What chassis number are you going to give them?The current one or the the one posted in the 1973 Safer motoring?

International Vintage Volkswagen Forums

Important Information: