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Posted by: Standard split - 27 January 2010 09:27:03
This looks like being another lengthy 'Rattletrap' type debate, so I think a new thread for MRT 308 is in order :roll: MRT 308 is the first VW built for the UK, in February 1952 and imported new with lots of photos taken at the time, some of which I still have somewhere 8) [ATTACH]3913[/Attach]

Posted by: Standard split - 27 January 2010 09:29:26
[quote=Rich Oakley] MRT is a great car and one of my all-time favourites, but that doesn't make it the first if there's clear evidence to prove otherwise :wink: [/quote] Proof please Rich, and good too :!:

Posted by: 48REME - 27 January 2010 11:42:15
Well, look in the other thread and you can read Richard's certainly well-researched facts. Where is the proof to your claims by the way?:wink:

Posted by: Standard split - 27 January 2010 12:35:19
[quote=48REME]Well, look in the other thread and you can read Richard's certainly well-researched facts. Where is the proof to your claims by the way?:wink: [/quote] Oh, you're back Mr Very Shiny Standard:roll: Having owned MRT for several years, and much researched and traced the history and seen all its documents, I'm probably in a better position than you to comment [-x I'm sure Rich will place any proof he has to the contrary here :wink:

Posted by: Standard split - 27 January 2010 12:35:19

[quote=48REME]Well, look in the other thread and you can read Richard's certainly well-researched facts. Where is the proof to your claims by the way?:wink: [/quote] Oh, you're back Mr Very Shiny Standard:roll: Having owned MRT for several years, and much researched and traced the history and seen all its documents, I'm probably in a better position than you to comment [-x I'm sure Rich will place any proof he has to the contrary here :wink:

Posted by: 48REME - 27 January 2010 15:14:36
[quote=Standard split] I'm probably in a better position than you to comment [-x [/quote] But I am not in any 'position' on the matter. I am just observing that Richard has actually found out some facts. You support the theory you want to believe, that's all. But if you're happy...then I am happy too.:wink:

Posted by: mooney3019 - 27 January 2010 17:07:25
It cant be, I know a 47/48 that was bought new here, the car has not been on the road for many years but is still around

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 27 January 2010 17:26:46
[quote=mooney3019]It cant be, I know a 47/48 that was bought new here, the car has not been on the road for many years but is still around[/quote] I think they mean imported officially by VW Motors London etc, not just the first VW to hit this fine island. :wink: I suppose even if MRT is a few days newer than the other, it may have still been the first to be imported.

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 27 January 2010 17:50:32
I think I will have to eat some humble pie and possibly my hat too. The car in Ireland actually had a chassis number higher than MRTs. MRT is 332970, the 11D in Ireland was 333708. So it looks like John was right, MRT really is the earliest. Now where's my hat?

Posted by: Standard split - 27 January 2010 19:14:10
[quote=Rich Oakley]I think I will have to eat some humble pie and possibly my hat too. The car in Ireland actually had a chassis number higher than MRTs. MRT is 332970, the 11D in Ireland was 333708. So it looks like John was right, MRT really is the earliest. Now where's my hat?[/quote] Damn, and I was looking forward to a [i]Rattletrap[/i] type debate – I was in for the long haul on this:evil: People forget that I first took ownership of MRT 308 a few decades ago. I spent an awful long time and effort in checking out the early VW UK imports prior to establishing that MRT was the very first VW built for shipment here. I had info turn-up from Germany and Canada of all places. I ran it all past Volkswagen themselves who had no reason to challenge MRTs unique standing 8) :beer: But Rich, you should eat 2 hats because MRTs chassis no is earlier than the wrong one you list above. It's 325474 (February 1952), and its listed on the Samba pre '53 registry too. Suggest you leave the hats to soak overnight then add salt to taste :twisted: The two most significant Volkswagens in the UK are of course [i][b]Rattletrap[/b][/i] and [b]MRT 308[/b]. Another car here of great significance to the birth of the Volkswagen is the 1937 [b]Tatra T97[/b] – that lives with [i]Rattletrap[/i] 8)

Posted by: Standard split - 27 January 2010 19:14:10

[quote=Rich Oakley]I think I will have to eat some humble pie and possibly my hat too. The car in Ireland actually had a chassis number higher than MRTs. MRT is 332970, the 11D in Ireland was 333708. So it looks like John was right, MRT really is the earliest. Now where's my hat?[/quote] Damn, and I was looking forward to a [i]Rattletrap[/i] type debate – I was in for the long haul on this:evil: People forget that I first took ownership of MRT 308 a few decades ago. I spent an awful long time and effort in checking out the early VW UK imports prior to establishing that MRT was the very first VW built for shipment here. I had info turn-up from Germany and Canada of all places. I ran it all past Volkswagen themselves who had no reason to challenge MRTs unique standing 8) :beer: But Rich, you should eat 2 hats because MRTs chassis no is earlier than the wrong one you list above. It's 325474 (February 1952), and its listed on the Samba pre '53 registry too. Suggest you leave the hats to soak overnight then add salt to taste :twisted: The two most significant Volkswagens in the UK are of course [i][b]Rattletrap[/b][/i] and [b]MRT 308[/b]. Another car here of great significance to the birth of the Volkswagen is the 1937 [b]Tatra T97[/b] – that lives with [i]Rattletrap[/i] 8)

Posted by: GKL 7 - 27 January 2010 19:45:55
Is MRT 308 the car you had repainted,decided you didn't like the job so decided to have it repainted again,then had an arguement with the paint shop so left it out in the rain,bare.It is with Fred in N.Ireland now, isn't it.Story i heard he had to re-restore it. Yes, i remember seeing it at Stoneleigh,carrying a very shiny paint job.Must have changed your taste since then John. Rumour still has it, this is the No2 car.

Posted by: GKL 7 - 27 January 2010 19:45:55

Is MRT 308 the car you had repainted,decided you didn't like the job so decided to have it repainted again,then had an arguement with the paint shop so left it out in the rain,bare.It is with Fred in N.Ireland now, isn't it.Story i heard he had to re-restore it. Yes, i remember seeing it at Stoneleigh,carrying a very shiny paint job.Must have changed your taste since then John. Rumour still has it, this is the No2 car.

Posted by: Standard split - 27 January 2010 20:22:38
[quote='50 Karmann]Is MRT 308 the car you had repainted,decided you didn't like the job so decided to have it repainted again,then had an arguement with the paint shop so left it out in the rain,bare.It is with Fred in N.Ireland now, isn't it.Story i heard he had to re-restore it. Yes, i remember seeing it at Stoneleigh,carrying a very shiny paint job.Must have changed your taste since then John. Rumour still has it, this is the No2 car. [/quote] Roughly correct, George. The paint shop made a shambles of the car. Within weeks the paint developed tiny bubbles and peeled off. I had to sue. The next place, a VW specialist (not franchise), were keen to have the car to sort it out. Too keen to have the car in fact – they wanted to keep it. They took the body off, left if in the back of the work shop for months untouched, and worse the chassis complete was left uncovered in the open, rain, snow the lot. I could not collect the car as it was all in bits. Things then started to get heated so they put the body (stripped bare of all paint) back on the chassis and I got it back. I treated and primed the exposed body, but with all the hassle decided to sell the car – the '49 was then on the horizon, my soon to be No1 VW – of course now there's [i]Rattletrap[/i] pushing for the No1 VW slot too. Fred Metson acquired MRT and had the whole thing re-done. To me it could never be a match to the low mileage one-owner '49 – but MRT like [i]Rattletrap[/i] has a fascinating history, although neither of them have originality to touch the '498) Any car that's needed painting or anything else since, I have done myself – its the only way to go:wink:

Posted by: Standard split - 27 January 2010 20:22:38

[quote='50 Karmann]Is MRT 308 the car you had repainted,decided you didn't like the job so decided to have it repainted again,then had an arguement with the paint shop so left it out in the rain,bare.It is with Fred in N.Ireland now, isn't it.Story i heard he had to re-restore it. Yes, i remember seeing it at Stoneleigh,carrying a very shiny paint job.Must have changed your taste since then John. Rumour still has it, this is the No2 car. [/quote] Roughly correct, George. The paint shop made a shambles of the car. Within weeks the paint developed tiny bubbles and peeled off. I had to sue. The next place, a VW specialist (not franchise), were keen to have the car to sort it out. Too keen to have the car in fact – they wanted to keep it. They took the body off, left if in the back of the work shop for months untouched, and worse the chassis complete was left uncovered in the open, rain, snow the lot. I could not collect the car as it was all in bits. Things then started to get heated so they put the body (stripped bare of all paint) back on the chassis and I got it back. I treated and primed the exposed body, but with all the hassle decided to sell the car – the '49 was then on the horizon, my soon to be No1 VW – of course now there's [i]Rattletrap[/i] pushing for the No1 VW slot too. Fred Metson acquired MRT and had the whole thing re-done. To me it could never be a match to the low mileage one-owner '49 – but MRT like [i]Rattletrap[/i] has a fascinating history, although neither of them have originality to touch the '498) Any car that's needed painting or anything else since, I have done myself – its the only way to go:wink:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 27 January 2010 20:36:17
[quote=Standard split]Too keen to have the car in fact – they wanted to keep it. [/quote] WHAT!!! Got to here this....tell me more......what was their arguement for this way of thinking?

Posted by: Standard split - 27 January 2010 21:18:20
[quote='50 Karmann] WHAT!!! Got to here this....tell me more......what was their arguement for this way of thinking?[/quote] Not saying too much… don't want to be sued :!:

Posted by: Rod_vw - 30 January 2010 21:23:59
Not an answer to the question but I can confirm seeing this car at the VW Convention at Stafford Showground, Staffordshire, England in 1971 and or 1972. Even back then the car was owned by an enthusiast who enjoyed presenting it for others to see. That same gentleman still frequents VW shows in the UK, maybe I will se him again at Stanford Hall 2010? Rod

Posted by: 55Kab - 31 January 2010 14:13:12
[quote=Standard split]To me it could never be a match to the low mileage one-owner '49 – but MRT like [i]Rattletrap[/i] has a fascinating history, although neither of them have originality to touch the '498)[/quote] That depends on your point of view. For my money, the provenance of MRT 308 makes it worth more than a low milage one owner 49. In monetary terms this happens all the time with certain antiques, even cars owned by famous people. The Lady Diana Spencer owned Range Rover is one good example. If MRT really is the first Beetle "offically" built for the UK then in terms of UK VW history it's priceless!

Posted by: 55Kab - 31 January 2010 14:13:12

[quote=Standard split]To me it could never be a match to the low mileage one-owner '49 – but MRT like [i]Rattletrap[/i] has a fascinating history, although neither of them have originality to touch the '498)[/quote] That depends on your point of view. For my money, the provenance of MRT 308 makes it worth more than a low milage one owner 49. In monetary terms this happens all the time with certain antiques, even cars owned by famous people. The Lady Diana Spencer owned Range Rover is one good example. If MRT really is the first Beetle "offically" built for the UK then in terms of UK VW history it's priceless!

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 31 January 2010 21:50:19
[quote=Rod_vw]Not an answer to the question but I can confirm seeing this car at the VW Convention at Stafford Showground, Staffordshire, England in 1971 and or 1972. Even back then the car was owned by an enthusiast who enjoyed presenting it for others to see. That same gentleman still frequents VW shows in the UK, maybe I will se him again at Stanford Hall 2010? Rod[/quote] Hi Rod! Welcome to the forum ('bout time too!!!) I've spoken to the son of this gentleman on several occasions. He is also into his VWs and has a nice VW Bus. Rich.

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 31 January 2010 21:50:19

[quote=Rod_vw]Not an answer to the question but I can confirm seeing this car at the VW Convention at Stafford Showground, Staffordshire, England in 1971 and or 1972. Even back then the car was owned by an enthusiast who enjoyed presenting it for others to see. That same gentleman still frequents VW shows in the UK, maybe I will se him again at Stanford Hall 2010? Rod[/quote] Hi Rod! Welcome to the forum ('bout time too!!!) I've spoken to the son of this gentleman on several occasions. He is also into his VWs and has a nice VW Bus. Rich.

Posted by: Standard split - 01 February 2010 09:52:48
[quote=55Kab] That depends on your point of view. For my money, the provenance of MRT 308 makes it worth more than a low milage one owner 49. In monetary terms this happens all the time with certain antiques, even cars owned by famous people. The Lady Diana Spencer owned Range Rover is one good example. If MRT really is the first Beetle "offically" built for the UK then in terms of UK VW history it's priceless! [/quote] The first 'official' imports were the batch of 945 units imported by VW GB in 1953. Alas, MRT 308 was not part of that first batch, so although arriving here new – it being the first new RHD VW here has never been disputed – it was not an 'official' import. I guess that the first one of the 1953 945 VW GB batch to be loaded onto the dock would be the first 'official car', and probably an oval too, I think that official imports began in June 1953 the oval era.:o MRT 308 was first registered on German plates prior to being driven over to England, so some fair 'delivery' miles on the clock. [i]Rattletrap[/i] has more provinence than MRT – the story is more fascinating – I've owned both cars, so know both very well, their history and documentation – and feel [i]Rattletrap[/i] clinches it 8) As far as comparing these two cars with my '49, [i]Rattletrap[/i] is at the opposite end of the originality spectrum of my '49 – but it's the story that makes it a fascinating collector's piece. MRT is fairly original, much more so than Rattletrap – but not anywhere near to the '49. [i]Rattletrap[/i] may well even be worth more than the '49 to some collectors. I think I know which would be more of an attraction at a regular vintage car show or VW meet – [i]Rattletrap[/i] – people love a car with a story to tell:wink:

Posted by: Standard split - 01 February 2010 09:52:48

[quote=55Kab] That depends on your point of view. For my money, the provenance of MRT 308 makes it worth more than a low milage one owner 49. In monetary terms this happens all the time with certain antiques, even cars owned by famous people. The Lady Diana Spencer owned Range Rover is one good example. If MRT really is the first Beetle "offically" built for the UK then in terms of UK VW history it's priceless! [/quote] The first 'official' imports were the batch of 945 units imported by VW GB in 1953. Alas, MRT 308 was not part of that first batch, so although arriving here new – it being the first new RHD VW here has never been disputed – it was not an 'official' import. I guess that the first one of the 1953 945 VW GB batch to be loaded onto the dock would be the first 'official car', and probably an oval too, I think that official imports began in June 1953 the oval era.:o MRT 308 was first registered on German plates prior to being driven over to England, so some fair 'delivery' miles on the clock. [i]Rattletrap[/i] has more provinence than MRT – the story is more fascinating – I've owned both cars, so know both very well, their history and documentation – and feel [i]Rattletrap[/i] clinches it 8) As far as comparing these two cars with my '49, [i]Rattletrap[/i] is at the opposite end of the originality spectrum of my '49 – but it's the story that makes it a fascinating collector's piece. MRT is fairly original, much more so than Rattletrap – but not anywhere near to the '49. [i]Rattletrap[/i] may well even be worth more than the '49 to some collectors. I think I know which would be more of an attraction at a regular vintage car show or VW meet – [i]Rattletrap[/i] – people love a car with a story to tell:wink:

Posted by: 55Kab - 01 February 2010 18:14:34
Agree totally John. Rattletrap has a provenance that is hard to beat by ANY Beetle. However, imagine finding the first official RHD Beetle registered in the UK - how fantastic that would be. I guess not much of a story but because of the significance it worth a fair amount to certain collectors, maybe even VAG UK. Wonder what it was and where it is? BTW - when was the first official RHD UK Type 2 imported? Anyone know?

Posted by: 55Kab - 01 February 2010 18:14:34

Agree totally John. Rattletrap has a provenance that is hard to beat by ANY Beetle. However, imagine finding the first official RHD Beetle registered in the UK - how fantastic that would be. I guess not much of a story but because of the significance it worth a fair amount to certain collectors, maybe even VAG UK. Wonder what it was and where it is? BTW - when was the first official RHD UK Type 2 imported? Anyone know?

Posted by: Standard split - 01 February 2010 18:50:33
[quote=55Kab]Agree totally John. Rattletrap has a provenance that is hard to beat by ANY Beetle. However, imagine finding the first official RHD Beetle registered in the UK - how fantastic that would be. I guess not much of a story but because of the significance it worth a fair amount to certain collectors, maybe even VAG UK. Wonder what it was and where it is? BTW - when was the first official RHD UK Type 2 imported? Anyone know? [/quote] You're spot on with both points, no doubt about it:beer: MRT was more or less a private order from a worker within the VW factory for a relative in Suffolk, England. I had the exact history, eventually after years of effort. The VW employee who ordered the car was a Rudolf Mez. I traced him to Canada back in 1979, where he had retired. He was a great guy and sent me everything he had and knew about MRT – but MRT is not official, although still believed to be the first new RHD VW to arrive here. As for [i]Rattletrap's[/i] value, I wouldn't swap 'him' for most anything, may well be the most interesting car I have, there's more to old cars than year and originality – [b]pr[/b][b]ovenance, story and history[/b] – [i]Rattletrap[/i] has it 8)

Posted by: Standard split - 01 February 2010 18:50:33

[quote=55Kab]Agree totally John. Rattletrap has a provenance that is hard to beat by ANY Beetle. However, imagine finding the first official RHD Beetle registered in the UK - how fantastic that would be. I guess not much of a story but because of the significance it worth a fair amount to certain collectors, maybe even VAG UK. Wonder what it was and where it is? BTW - when was the first official RHD UK Type 2 imported? Anyone know? [/quote] You're spot on with both points, no doubt about it:beer: MRT was more or less a private order from a worker within the VW factory for a relative in Suffolk, England. I had the exact history, eventually after years of effort. The VW employee who ordered the car was a Rudolf Mez. I traced him to Canada back in 1979, where he had retired. He was a great guy and sent me everything he had and knew about MRT – but MRT is not official, although still believed to be the first new RHD VW to arrive here. As for [i]Rattletrap's[/i] value, I wouldn't swap 'him' for most anything, may well be the most interesting car I have, there's more to old cars than year and originality – [b]pr[/b][b]ovenance, story and history[/b] – [i]Rattletrap[/i] has it 8)

Posted by: 59 Ragtop - 01 February 2010 21:43:29
Superb to find out all the history. I'll have to get to work tracing the history of my car...

Posted by: Ovalbug - 02 February 2010 06:18:01
Very interesting thread.....:d Going slightly OT for a minute though, the talk of the first 1953 'batch' of 945 officially imported vehicles interests me as my own oval was delivered to VW Motors London in Sept of that year. Does anyone have any info on how VW Motors actually sold these UK cars back in '53? I'd always imagined the cars being sold in drips and drabs throughout '53, with the March cars being sold and then replaced by the April-built cars etc and so on..... If this wasn't the case were the cars sold by the dealers to special order or were they all available to UK customers ex-stock? :wink:

Posted by: Ovalbug - 02 February 2010 06:18:01

Very interesting thread.....:d Going slightly OT for a minute though, the talk of the first 1953 'batch' of 945 officially imported vehicles interests me as my own oval was delivered to VW Motors London in Sept of that year. Does anyone have any info on how VW Motors actually sold these UK cars back in '53? I'd always imagined the cars being sold in drips and drabs throughout '53, with the March cars being sold and then replaced by the April-built cars etc and so on..... If this wasn't the case were the cars sold by the dealers to special order or were they all available to UK customers ex-stock? :wink:

Posted by: Standard split - 02 February 2010 09:48:23
[quote=Ovalbug]Very interesting thread.....:d Going slightly OT for a minute though, the talk of the first 1953 'batch' of 945 officially imported vehicles interests me as my own oval was delivered to VW Motors London in Sept of that year. Does anyone have any info on how VW Motors actually sold these UK cars back in '53? I'd always imagined the cars being sold in drips and drabs throughout '53, with the March cars being sold and then replaced by the April-built cars etc and so on..... If this wasn't the case were the cars sold by the dealers to special order or were they all available to UK customers ex-stock? :wink: [/quote] I believe that Colbourne Baber, VW dealers in Guildford, Surrey (still there) were among the first official VW dealers in 1953. They started reconditioning and selling used VWs bought over by ex-servicemen in the late '40s, LHD of course :wink:

Posted by: Standard split - 02 February 2010 09:48:23

[quote=Ovalbug]Very interesting thread.....:d Going slightly OT for a minute though, the talk of the first 1953 'batch' of 945 officially imported vehicles interests me as my own oval was delivered to VW Motors London in Sept of that year. Does anyone have any info on how VW Motors actually sold these UK cars back in '53? I'd always imagined the cars being sold in drips and drabs throughout '53, with the March cars being sold and then replaced by the April-built cars etc and so on..... If this wasn't the case were the cars sold by the dealers to special order or were they all available to UK customers ex-stock? :wink: [/quote] I believe that Colbourne Baber, VW dealers in Guildford, Surrey (still there) were among the first official VW dealers in 1953. They started reconditioning and selling used VWs bought over by ex-servicemen in the late '40s, LHD of course :wink:

Posted by: Rattletrap - 21 January 2011 19:09:20
Here's a very interesting photo; this is MRT 308 being unloaded onto UK soil at Dover, April 1952 – a new [i]right-hand-drive[/i] Volkswagen.:thumbup: So, [i]VW Great Britain[/i], this pre-dates your first batch of right-handers in 1953.:p [ATTACH]5366[/Attach]

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 21 January 2011 19:34:02
[quote=Rattletrap]Here's a very interesting photo; this is MRT 308 being unloaded onto UK soil at Dover, April 1952 – a new [i]right-hand-drive[/i] Volkswagen.:thumbup: So, [i]VW Great Britain[/i], this pre-dates your first batch of right-handers in 1953.:p [/quote] Great pic John. Where did you get it from?

Posted by: Rattletrap - 21 January 2011 19:40:21
A worker within the VW factory in 1952 a Rudolf Mez, retired to Canada back in 1979. I managed to trace him, he was a great guy and sent me everything he had and knew about MRT, including some fascinating photos.:beer: See my post about him on the lower part of page 1.

Posted by: Rattletrap - 08 February 2011 19:03:13
Here's a real treat. [i]MRT 308[/i], brand new in the UK and just registered, seen here with the proud new owners (April 1952).8) [ATTACH]5474[/Attach]

Posted by: 59 Ragtop - 08 February 2011 21:24:03
Great pic8)

Posted by: Mike Peckham - 08 February 2011 21:58:27
yes, great pic. Do you know where it was taken? Would have been great to take the car back there and set the scene up again. I love that sort of provenance with a car - early photos are a real treasure! Mike

Posted by: Rattletrap - 09 February 2011 09:52:02
[quote=59 Ragtop]Great pic8) [/quote] Thanks:!: [quote=Mike Peckham]yes, great pic. Do you know where it was taken? Would have been great to take the car back there and set the scene up again. I love that sort of provenance with a car - early photos are a real treasure! Mike[/quote] Walberswick, Suffolk, Mike. MRT is a bit like having our own VW38. I used to show that car everywhere, always very popular. I'd love to have it back. Be nice for it to be back on the scene.8)

Posted by: Rattletrap - 09 February 2011 09:52:02

[quote=59 Ragtop]Great pic8) [/quote] Thanks:!: [quote=Mike Peckham]yes, great pic. Do you know where it was taken? Would have been great to take the car back there and set the scene up again. I love that sort of provenance with a car - early photos are a real treasure! Mike[/quote] Walberswick, Suffolk, Mike. MRT is a bit like having our own VW38. I used to show that car everywhere, always very popular. I'd love to have it back. Be nice for it to be back on the scene.8)

Posted by: GKL 7 - 09 February 2011 18:06:23
[quote=Rattletrap] I'd love to have it back. [/quote] Is it still with Fred?Contact him,you just never know. Thats who owned my old cabrio,and he sold that.

Posted by: Rattletrap - 09 February 2011 18:24:00
[quote='50 Karmann]Is it still with Fred?Contact him,you just never know. Thats who owned my old cabrio,and he sold that. [/quote] Email just gone off to him George… I'm having my house valued tomorrow, and the [i]Tatra[/i] has gone in the '[i]Motoring Expand and Fart'[/i] :unsure:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 09 February 2011 18:27:39
[quote=Rattletrap]Email just gone off to him George… I'm having my house valued tomorrow, and the [i]Tatra[/i] has gone in the '[i]Motoring Expand and Fart'[/i] :unsure: [/quote] I see,so you really meant..... I wish i could have it back at the price i sold it........Er!OK:bored:

Posted by: Rattletrap - 09 February 2011 18:35:09
[quote='50 Karmann]I see,so you really meant..... I wish i could have it back at the price i sold it........Er!OK:bored: [/quote] :?: :? Be nice, wouldn't get an Oval project for that today.

Posted by: 59 Ragtop - 09 February 2011 22:06:20
Indeed, buy it back. :wink:

Posted by: 55Kab - 10 February 2011 06:09:47
[quote=59 Ragtop]Indeed, buy it back. :wink: [/quote] x2 Do it!

Posted by: Rattletrap - 10 February 2011 11:45:37
[quote=59 Ragtop]Indeed, buy it back. :wink: [/quote] The email went, the house is up for sale and I'm awaiting his reply…:roll:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 10 February 2011 14:36:59
[quote=Rattletrap]The email went, the house is up for sale and I'm awaiting his reply…:roll: [/quote] What's Fred's e-mail add John,if he's selling cars,i'll have his Heb. Steady Rob,i was first:wink:

Posted by: Rattletrap - 10 February 2011 14:39:55
[quote='50 Karmann]What's Fred's e-mail add John,if he's selling cars,i'll have his Heb. Steady Rob,i was first:wink: [/quote] Doesn't he have a [i]KdF Wagen[/i] too, George.:sneaky:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 10 February 2011 14:41:53
[quote=Rattletrap]Doesn't he have a [i]KdF Wagen[/i] too, George.:sneaky: [/quote] Yep And a Kuble and a swimm.

Posted by: Rattletrap - 10 February 2011 14:42:59
[quote='50 Karmann]Yep And a Kuble and a swimm.[/quote] Mmm… a serious player here.:unsure:

Posted by: pre67vw - 10 February 2011 14:45:53
[quote='50 Karmann]What's Fred's e-mail add John,if he's selling cars,i'll have his Heb. Steady Rob,i was first:wink: [/quote] He didn't want to sell it when I spoke to him last... He did say he'd send some up to date photos to me, but I've never received anything from him

Posted by: Rattletrap - 22 February 2011 20:19:36
[quote=pre67vw]He didn't want to sell it when I spoke to him last... He did say he'd send some up to date photos to me, but I've never received anything from him [/quote] Nope, I've had no feedback either. If someone has a 'phone number for Fred and can PM it to me I'll have another try. Don't post it of course, I'd not blame him for being a little cross about that.:wink: Anyway, here's another little treat, MRT brand spanking new with Rudolf Mez the guy from the Wolfsburg factory at the wheel. Wouldn't you just love to drive the car straight from this picture.:smile: Almost 900,000 miles less than well – you know who.:sneaky: [ATTACH]5605[/Attach]

Posted by: Rattletrap - 22 February 2011 20:19:36

[quote=pre67vw]He didn't want to sell it when I spoke to him last... He did say he'd send some up to date photos to me, but I've never received anything from him [/quote] Nope, I've had no feedback either. If someone has a 'phone number for Fred and can PM it to me I'll have another try. Don't post it of course, I'd not blame him for being a little cross about that.:wink: Anyway, here's another little treat, MRT brand spanking new with Rudolf Mez the guy from the Wolfsburg factory at the wheel. Wouldn't you just love to drive the car straight from this picture.:smile: Almost 900,000 miles less than well – you know who.:sneaky: [ATTACH]5605[/Attach]

Posted by: rudolf hucker - 22 February 2011 20:24:50
I would like to think that when you sold this car that you gave all the lovely photos and history to the new owner and didnt keep it for yourself. Please tell me the photo is a copy that you had made.

Posted by: Rattletrap - 22 February 2011 20:30:08
[quote=rudolf hucker]I would like to think that when you sold this car that you gave all the lovely photos and history to the new owner and didnt keep it for yourself. Please tell me the photo is a copy that you had made.[/quote] The original negatives were sent to me by Mr Mez and I made prints from them. All that I had with the car was transferred with it Rudolf. This car is our 'VW38', far be it for me to spoil any part of it. :wink:

Posted by: Rattletrap - 22 February 2011 20:30:08

[quote=rudolf hucker]I would like to think that when you sold this car that you gave all the lovely photos and history to the new owner and didnt keep it for yourself. Please tell me the photo is a copy that you had made.[/quote] The original negatives were sent to me by Mr Mez and I made prints from them. All that I had with the car was transferred with it Rudolf. This car is our 'VW38', far be it for me to spoil any part of it. :wink:

Posted by: rudolf hucker - 22 February 2011 20:42:50
Thats good news..well done.

Posted by: Rattletrap - 10 January 2012 15:59:04
Thanks to kevsplitty for this 1976 image.:beer: [img]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/kevsplitty/SAM_0234.jpg[/img]

Posted by: kevsplitty - 10 January 2012 19:18:04
No worries, even then i was into the SSVC no not split screen van club,but socks,sandals,vest club:lol:

Posted by: kevsplitty - 10 January 2012 19:22:38
[quote=Rod_vw]Not an answer to the question but I can confirm seeing this car at the VW Convention at Stafford Showground, Staffordshire, England in 1971 and or 1972. Even back then the car was owned by an enthusiast who enjoyed presenting it for others to see. That same gentleman still frequents VW shows in the UK, maybe I will se him again at Stanford Hall 2010? Rod[/quote] Should catch up as normal Rod,be good to see you again kev, (maurice's son):wink:

Posted by: kevsplitty - 10 January 2012 19:22:38

[quote=Rod_vw]Not an answer to the question but I can confirm seeing this car at the VW Convention at Stafford Showground, Staffordshire, England in 1971 and or 1972. Even back then the car was owned by an enthusiast who enjoyed presenting it for others to see. That same gentleman still frequents VW shows in the UK, maybe I will se him again at Stanford Hall 2010? Rod[/quote] Should catch up as normal Rod,be good to see you again kev, (maurice's son):wink:

Posted by: kevsplitty - 10 January 2012 19:24:49
[quote=Rich Oakley]Hi Rod! Welcome to the forum ('bout time too!!!) I've spoken to the son of this gentleman on several occasions. He is also into his VWs and has a nice VW Bus. Rich.[/quote] Indeed you have rich,hopefully catch up soon ,maybe lavenham:wink:

Posted by: Chris - 10 January 2012 20:24:50
What a great thread :d Some great pictures there, really good to see people sharing this stuff. I once had a poster of MRT, it was in the garage as a bit of a kick up the arse to motivate me to get something done on mine :roll: Good to see this thread back on track and not become the usual slagging match we sometimes get. While reading page 1, I was half expecting to see this thread locked [-x Nice to see everyone getting on :p

Posted by: Chris - 10 January 2012 20:24:50

What a great thread :d Some great pictures there, really good to see people sharing this stuff. I once had a poster of MRT, it was in the garage as a bit of a kick up the arse to motivate me to get something done on mine :roll: Good to see this thread back on track and not become the usual slagging match we sometimes get. While reading page 1, I was half expecting to see this thread locked [-x Nice to see everyone getting on :p

Posted by: Rattletrap - 11 January 2012 13:21:10

When I owned MRT, or [i]Mr T[/i] as I called it, I used to have to put up with those 'experts' at shows, rather like we have today on the web. "[i]Its is converted to right hand drive[/i]", they'd say. "[i]It wasn't built in Germany, but assembled in Ireland[/i]", "[i]Its come over from South Africa[/i]", or "[i]You've made it up, it didn't come here new[/i]", and so on. Sounds familiar ? Well today, [i]Mr T[/i] has been accepted as the historic car it really is by the majority. Proves patience eventually pays off.:d

Posted by: GKL 7 - 11 January 2012 15:18:15
[quote=Rattletrap] Proves patience eventually pays off.:d [/quote] You'll have a bit of an uphill climb convincing people about that other car 'tho.

Posted by: Rattletrap - 11 January 2012 16:03:08

[quote=Chris]What a great thread :d Some great pictures there, really good to see people sharing this stuff. I once had a poster of MRT, it was in the garage as a bit of a kick up the arse to motivate me to get something done on mine :roll: Good to see this thread back on track and not become the usual slagging match we sometimes get. While reading page 1, I was half expecting to see this thread locked [-x Nice to see everyone getting on :p [/quote] It is. Started by someone by the name of [i]Standard Split[/i]. Why, he's used my [i]Rattletrap[/i] avatar and signature, the scoundrel.:wink:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 11 January 2012 18:13:17
[quote=Chris] I once had a poster of MRT, it was in the garage as a bit of a kick up the arse to motivate me to get something done on mine :roll: [/quote] Different car,the poster you had was of a 1955 black Oval.MRT ???, not 308. It obviously didn't motivate you enough:rofl:

Posted by: Cool Splitty - 11 July 2012 10:39:19
VW motors GB were the offical importrs n didnt start bringing Vdubs here untill 1953 when bugs wer oval windows:d

Posted by: Cool Splitty - 16 July 2012 17:17:12
Dose anyone have a really early rhd but officaly imported for uk dealer sale 53 n is the 1st of these stil around:? were the earliest 53s infact zwitters n not ovals:?

Posted by: rudolf hucker - 16 July 2012 19:10:50
[quote=GKL 7]Different car,the poster you had was of a 1955 black Oval.MRT ???, not 308. [/quote] Are you sure the car was not MTR 900? My old black oval, I think it was Athena the poster people who had it featured on birthday cards and posters. Dave of Albania.

Posted by: GKL 7 - 16 July 2012 19:17:17
It probably was yours Rudy. Just those strange looking Albanian plates have confused my memory.

Posted by: Rattletrap - 29 April 2013 09:41:21

[quote=Rich Oakley]I think I will have to eat some humble pie and possibly my hat too. The car in Ireland actually had a chassis number higher than MRTs. MRT is 332970, the 11D in Ireland was 333708. So it looks like John was right, MRT really is the earliest. Now where's my hat?[/quote] As said elsewhere, MRT's chassis number is 1-0325474. The other car mentioned by Rich is actually chassis number 1-0338078 (built 26th March 1952 a few weeks [u]after[/u] MRT), it arrived on the 5th April 1952, two days [u]before[/u] MRT did. It was delivered to [i]Sparrow and Co[/i], London. On the 6th April 1952 it was registered as LHV 763. What else comes to light here is that besides arriving before MRT, LHV 763 was supplied to a dealer as a new car. MRT was essentially a private import, driven to England and handed to a relative of the person importing it, for private use. So although MRT has the lower chassis number, it perhaps was not the first VW built for the UK, but rather LHV 763 was. Remember [i]Volkswagen[/i] were building RHD Beetles - Type 11D. Sadly, MRT may have lost its crown of UK glory. Sadly also, when LHV was discovered in a Lincolnshire hedge during the early 1980's, it was well rotten and subsequently scrapped after attempts to locate a buyer to restore it failed.:(

Posted by: Lost64 - 29 April 2013 21:52:27
Giving my age away, but I remember the articles and debate about MRT 308 and LHV 763 in the I.V.V.M. back in the late 80's early '90's. There were some pictures of what was left of LHV after it had been rescued from the hedge, and it wasn't a pretty sight. The LHV registration lives on however on a very nice Oval dash split. Gavin.

Posted by: RoRoVw - 30 April 2013 08:18:50
The Zwitter with the registration number, LHV 763 will be part of the 'Inner Circle' display next Sunday at Stanford Hall and will also be part of the Historic VW Club's 1953 Display at the NEC in November. Cheers, Rob.

Posted by: Rod_vw - 30 April 2013 23:34:22

Just to throw another pebble into the pond... In the very early 70s MRT was displayed at Stafford in a Volkswagen Convention. In those days we owned a 1968 Beetle, seeing MRT and talking to its than owner sparked an interest in early VWs. From there we found and bought TJJ 62 (1949 1-101991) and then promoted and began what in later days became the Historic Volkswagen Club. MRT may or may not be the first.... but there is no doubt it has got a lot to answer for! So I add my thanks to Maurice for that conversation in the early 70s. Rod

Posted by: Rattletrap - 02 May 2013 12:09:02

[quote=Rod_vw]Just to throw another pebble into the pond... In the very early 70s MRT was displayed at Stafford in a Volkswagen Convention. In those days we owned a 1968 Beetle, seeing MRT and talking to its than owner sparked an interest in early VWs. From there we found and bought TJJ 62 (1949 1-101991) and then promoted and began what in later days became the Historic Volkswagen Club. MRT may or may not be the first.... but there is no doubt it has got a lot to answer for! So I add my thanks to Maurice for that conversation in the early 70s. Rod[/quote] Around the mid 1970's I was beginning to take an interest in early cars (that is 1940s-1950s vehicles). Although too young to drive, I hated the 60s-70s monocoque square tin and glass boxes that were everywhere. I'd always liked the Beetle's rounded shape, though thought that of the [i]Morris Minor [/i]to be unattractive. The Beetle had nicely 'penned' curves to my artistic eye. I first saw a proper early Beetle in 1977 during the [i]Queen's Silver Jubilee celebrations[/i] in central London. It drove by just before the road was closed for the Queen to pass. It was a black split-window - I loved it and that was it for me, a must have. This car as it turned out was [i]Tony Levy[/i] driving [i]Rattletrap[/i] around past the crowds waiting for the Queen. The reg number 10BXK was so easy to remember. So Rattletrap sowed the seed in my head, though I never thought I'd actually own it one day, Tony was clear he'd never sell it. [i]MRT[/i] was to become one of the cars to further turn the dream into reality, after some effort and persuation [i]Maurice Goldsmith [/i]sold me the car. By then I'd already acquired [i]349 GMO [/i]which I still have, but getting a right-hooker! I believe that it was [i]Rod [/i]that mentioned this RHD split to me over the phone when I called him regarding my acquisition of GMO. I then drove over to [i]Mutford[/i] in [i]Suffolk [/i]to see MRT. So thanks to Tony and Rattletrap, thanks to Rod. I enjoyed MRT for 5 years and attended around 40 vintage and VW shows with it.:beer:

Posted by: 59 Ragtop - 03 May 2013 21:29:34
Spot on there. Unique styling, great to drive,nothing beats an early vw.Sums it up really:thumbup:

Posted by: kevsplitty - 22 May 2013 21:32:32

Posted by: Rattletrap - 23 May 2013 18:36:39

As a past owner of[i] MRT[/i], and the present owner of [i]Rattletrap[/i], I have been asked, and often considered the question myself; Which of the two have been most significant to the development of the vintage VW movement in the UK? I have a great affection for both cars, both mean a lot to me, [i]Rattletrap[/i] providing the kindling and MRT putting the spark to the flame. It was I that searched out MRT's fascinating history, finding documents and photos from as far as Canada. It was [i]Tony Levy [/i]though, that created the [i]Rattletrap[/i] legend and myth that received so much media publicity promoting interest in old Beetles around the UK. I'd love to say that it is MRT, and partly me, being that I was responsible in finding and promoting the car's history, taking it to so many non-VW shows around England in the five years I owned it. But I can't. Tony took his car just about everywhere in the UK to show it off, and abroad too. He had a huge appetite for publicity, the heavy file I have with the car shows that. He even got it to the opening of the M1, being among the first private cars to drive on it, then there was parading it along part of the Silver Jubilee route in 1977, where I first saw it - in fact my first sighting of a proper early Beetle, I'd never seen a split window before. So I think it has to be [i]Rattletrap[/i], and so thank you to Tony.:wink:

Posted by: Old Blue - 25 May 2013 15:10:04
Rattletrap is the one. It was in the papers before there were any UK vintage VW shows. Was never aware of MRT in those early days, and anyway, there were a few other private import split windows, some before MRT. Colboure Garages had a few, then theres the RHD one LHV763 mentioned on this thread.

Posted by: Rattletrap - 28 May 2013 10:32:15

[quote=Old Blue]Rattletrap is the one. It was in the papers before there were any UK vintage VW shows. Was never aware of MRT in those early days, and anyway, there were a few other private import split windows, some before MRT. Colboure Garages had a few, then theres the RHD one LHV763 mentioned on this thread.[/quote] [i]Rattletrap[/i] certainly is an historic UK car [i]Old Blue[/i]. But MRT is more than just another private import. Unlike the usual private imports, MRT was destined for the UK while being built at the VW factory. And of course was right hand drive, unlike [i]Colbourne'[/i]s used early Beetle imports that were left hand drive.

Posted by: Rattletrap - 21 March 2017 18:29:39
MRT 308 is showing up on the DVLA tax check site as just having been taxed. I thought the car was in Northern Ireland. Unless I am mistaken, the DVLA site does not cover Northern Ireland. Does this mean MRT is back in Great Britain, if so, who has it:?:

Posted by: 1974dudley - 22 March 2017 11:10:32
Fred must be going to take it out for a spin, it's still here in NI but he mostly drives the 49. NI car taxation is controlled by Swansea now. Must take LSJ 299 for a quick photo with MRT

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