incredible... looking forward to seeing this finished!! [ATTACH]5174[/Attach] [ATTACH]5175[/Attach]
Posted by: WayneMcCarthy - 10 December 2010 09:41:54
Great Car , Can't Wait to See it in The Flesh.
Posted by: pre67vw - 20 December 2010 17:54:40
looking good and getting nearer!! [ATTACH]5233[/Attach] [ATTACH]5234[/Attach] [ATTACH]5235[/Attach] [ATTACH]5236[/Attach] [ATTACH]5237[/Attach]
Posted by: pre67vw - 20 December 2010 17:59:50
You can not possibly tell me that this is worse than leaving it as it was found... [ATTACH]5238[/Attach] [ATTACH]5239[/Attach] [ATTACH]5240[/Attach]
Posted by: Rattletrap - 20 December 2010 18:09:08
Looking very good :beer:
I find the many detailed differences to the production car, if correct, very interesting. In particular, i notice the rear window has two ribs inside and a sharper profile on the inside too. And as for the front luggage, tank area, fantastic :beer:
[quote=pre67vw]You can not possibly tell me that this is worse than leaving it as it was found...[/quote]
Wouldn't have minded it sitting in my garden :lol:
Posted by: Undis - 21 December 2010 08:18:21
[quote=Rattletrap]
I notice the rear window has two ribs inside and a sharper profile on the inside too.
[/quote]
Yes, that is the correct pattern, in fact that panel is one of the areas that was still intact when the car was found. The team managed to save that piece:wink:
Posted by: Rattletrap - 21 December 2010 13:26:46
[quote=Undis]Yes, that is the correct pattern, in fact that panel is one of the areas that was still intact when the car was found. The team managed to save that piece:wink:
[/quote]
I'm amazed, I thought that the rear window area was all lost :?
[ATTACH]5241[/Attach]
Posted by: pre67vw - 21 December 2010 15:49:27
I think probably a lot of the bottom section was saved, but the top part re-constructed...? [ATTACH]5243[/Attach]
Posted by: Rattletrap - 21 December 2010 16:25:02
[quote=pre67vw]I think probably a lot of the bottom section was saved, but the top part re-constructed...? [/quote]
Even the inner-widow panel is different with a much more defined edge :?
Posted by: Si Med - 21 December 2010 17:57:17
[quote=Rattletrap]Even the inner-widow panel is different with a much more defined edge :? [/quote]
I think the lighting/angle and amount of dirt on the pre resto shots make it appear this way
Posted by: pre67vw - 22 December 2010 10:04:37
Glossy primer... this is already a better finish than my car :? :lol: [ATTACH]5244[/Attach] [ATTACH]5245[/Attach] [ATTACH]5246[/Attach]
Posted by: JD - 22 December 2010 12:13:59
[quote=Rattletrap]Even the inner-widow panel is different with a much more defined edge :? [/quote]
I rather doubt they just glanced at one blurry photo and then bashed out a panel that looks a bit like it. You can be sure they have many pictures of how it originally looked and have studied them very carefully indeed. And the same applies to you or I making any kind of judgement based on one single photo of the finished article in a different paint finish. And not forgetting that these cars were all hand made one offs, so a certain amount of variation would be present between the different cars in any case.
Posted by: Rattletrap - 22 December 2010 12:44:29
[quote=JD]I rather doubt they just glanced at one blurry photo and then bashed out a panel that looks a bit like it. You can be sure they have many pictures of how it originally looked and have studied them very carefully indeed. And the same applies to you or I making any kind of judgement based on one single photo of the finished article in a different paint finish. And not forgetting that these cars were all hand made one offs, so a certain amount of variation would be present between the different cars in any case.[/quote]
That's my point. I think that the inner-window was different inside to the production cars. If archive images that I've seen are correct, they've matched it close to the original style.
Posted by: pre67vw - 05 January 2011 12:45:27
more paint... [ATTACH]5302[/Attach] [ATTACH]5303[/Attach] [ATTACH]5304[/Attach] [ATTACH]5305[/Attach]
Posted by: oval56 - 05 January 2011 20:58:46
this work and the reconstruction of the rest is over the top:idea:
Posted by: Kids taxi - 06 January 2011 20:25:14
Im throughly looking forward to seeing it finished
KT
Posted by: Ovaltine - 08 January 2011 12:12:06
The workmanship is great - the fate of the last known surviving VW38 isn't. It is now gone absorbed into a rebuild.
You cannot call this car a restoration, hardly anything of the car remains.
Its had replacement chassis, all mechanicals, electrics, seats, fittings, body panels, windows, seats etc, etc, etc.
The car is a 2010-11 build using period parts [-x
Posted by: mrsherbie - 11 January 2011 11:02:58
I agree with you to some extent, I cant decide which I find personally more interesting the before or after car. I know it was ugly :lol: but I am still undecided. To me it was 'historical art' before, and now it will be a car again. I can only think that is the better outcome.
But I also place real faith in the Grundmann's far better wisdom & choice to restore it and I can see that 99.9% of the population both in and outside the scene will far prefer to see it this way.
Posted by: Rattletrap - 11 January 2011 11:21:12
[quote=mrsherbie]I agree with you to some extent, I cant decide which I find personally more interesting the before or after car. I know it was ugly :lol: but I am still undecided. To me it was 'historical art' before, and now it will be a car again. I can only think that is the better outcome.[/quote]
There's something really fascinating about a rare discovery dug-up, dragged out of a pond or whatever. The wreck of the VW38 was a mess but told a story.
The rebuild is excellent, but so also are Volkswagen's reconstructed prototypes. I feel that this is how the VW38 should have been with the discovered wreck preserved as found.:o
Unfortunately, [i]Ovaltine[/i] has taken a kicking for having a different view from others here – on a forum for free discussion of Vintage VW related subjects.
Posted by: JD - 11 January 2011 11:24:05
[quote=Ovaltine]
You cannot call this car a restoration, hardly anything of the car remains.
[-x [/quote]
There is as much of the original car left as when it was discovered, and a huge quantity of original VW38 parts added back to it. I don´t see why you are unhappy about what the Grundmanns are doing - they didn´t wreck the car. Until someone finds a better VW38, this is as good as it´s going to get.
Posted by: JD - 11 January 2011 11:26:32
[quote=Rattletrap] I feel that this is how the VW38 should have been with the discovered wreck preserved as found.:o
[/quote]
But surely that would only be of any interest to keen students of Eastern Bloc automotive field repairs. It doesn´t represent anything that the car was originally about.
Posted by: pre67vw - 11 January 2011 12:51:38
[quote=Rattletrap]There's something really fascinating about a rare discovery dug-up, dragged out of a pond or whatever. The wreck of the VW38 was a mess but told a story.
[/quote]
I agree it's got a facinating story to tell, and the restoration is another part of the story. The original wreck has been preserved in photos, there's nothing more to gain from keeping it as it was. With it restored, we get to see how it would have looked when new and enjoy it attending some VW events and see it for real. I'd much rather see it driving around and be able to look at some of the details up close knowing that this is the closest to original it's going to get. If it was preserved as it was, you wouldn't know what was correct and what had been hacked around.
Posted by: oval56 - 11 January 2011 13:22:08
i see a wonderfull reconstruction with maximum on original parts and 99,9% of recreations of missing parts. for that input, which the grundmans and the team and all involved gave to this car, i pull my hat if i had one:!:
to rebuild a car if it is complete with original tools, is really difficult and makes in my opinion not much sense. look at the painting, they trie to do it the way it was done 70 years ago. but if ovaltine hase some worthfull inputs how it was done right back in the day, comon and let us participate
Posted by: pre67vw - 14 January 2011 09:37:19
I've just done a massive clean up of the thread, lets keep it on-topic and leave out the insults.
Whether it should have been left alone or restored back to its former glory is down to personal opinion and has now been covered - it's being restored so the descision has already been made.
The rear lights must be a bit special.
Must be some real research here.8)
I'd love a detail of those complete.
Posted by: pre67vw - 14 January 2011 12:05:53
[quote=Rattletrap]
Must be some real research here.8)
[/quote]
Have you ever seen any of the Grundmann collection? It's more than a collection of cars, they have tons of incredibly rare 'stuff' that they've been collecting for years and years. It wouldn't suprise me at all if the car is re-united with many of it's original parts without even knowing it.
I think this is one of the reasons that bashing the restoration is out of order, nobody in the world could do it better - not even VW themselves. It goes beyond skill and knowledge - there are other very skilled people who could maybe do the metalwork/paint etc. to the same first class standard - but nobody else could pull out original technical drawings or 1938 parts from their stash.
:beer:
[img]https://www.pre67vw.com/shows/photos/Hessisch_Oldendorf_2009/IMG_9450.jpg[/img]
Posted by: Rattletrap - 14 January 2011 12:15:38
Its awesome when you think of it Rob.:thumbup:
Shame that unlike the likes of you and I, [i]Joe Public[/i] just wouldn't realise just how special this little VW is.
Posted by: zelensis61 - 22 January 2011 07:58:49
They are going fast ....and I mean FAST...:drool:
The painted body and parts got home yesterday evening....and this morning it looked like this :omg:
I hope Christian feels OK with it. The picts came from a social network and he posted them. :thumbup:
Greetings. [ATTACH]5370[/Attach] [ATTACH]5371[/Attach] [ATTACH]5372[/Attach] [ATTACH]5373[/Attach] [ATTACH]5374[/Attach]
Posted by: 55Kab - 22 January 2011 08:27:37
WOW :!:
Fast works guys. Can imagine you couldn't wait to get her all together so I would have worked through the night too!
Looks perfect. :beer:
Posted by: Rattletrap - 22 January 2011 16:39:00
Can't think that anybody would have wanted it left as found.:oops:
Amazing job, seeing is believing - I love the detail of the bumpers and numberplate/stop lamp.8)
Posted by: heb623 - 23 January 2011 16:27:34
Amazing job! :thumbup:
And I am happy to see the result!
It wasn't much but atleast I can see where my money is invested in!:?
:twisted: ET
Posted by: pre67vw - 23 January 2011 21:48:09
What an awesome weekend, the car looks absolutely awesome in real life ;-)
Posted by: 55Kab - 24 January 2011 07:13:12
[quote=pre67vw]What an awesome weekend, the car looks absolutely awesome in real life ;-)[/quote]
Pics please... :wink:
Posted by: volksfahrer.nl - 24 January 2011 08:28:41
Saturday I was VERY lucky to be able to see the marriage with my own two eyes and make a "few" pics.
Thanks you Grundmann family!
Check [b][url]https://www.volksfahrer.nl[/url][/b] for all the pics!
[img]https://www.volksfahrer.nl/copper18/albums/pictures/shows/vw38wm/IMG_0809.JPG[/img]
[img]https://www.volksfahrer.nl/copper18/albums/pictures/shows/vw38wm/IMG_1154a.jpg[/img]
:D
[img]https://www.volksfahrer.nl/copper18/albums/pictures/shows/vw38wm/IMG_1024.JPG[/img]
[img]https://www.volksfahrer.nl/copper18/albums/pictures/shows/vw38wm/IMG_0931.JPG[/img]
[img]https://www.volksfahrer.nl/copper18/albums/pictures/shows/vw38wm/IMG_0858.JPG[/img]
[img]https://www.volksfahrer.nl/copper18/albums/pictures/shows/vw38wm/IMG_1131.JPG[/img]
Posted by: JD - 24 January 2011 08:28:53
[quote=pre67vw]What an awesome weekend, the car looks absolutely awesome in real life ;-)[/quote]
Friend of the stars! :d
Lucky chap to have been there.:thumbup:
Posted by: pre67vw - 24 January 2011 09:04:14
[quote=JD]
Lucky chap to have been there.:thumbup: [/quote]
Very lucky indeed, crazy weekend, crazy car, fantastic :thumbup:
[img]https://www.volksfahrer.nl/copper18/albums/pictures/shows/vw38wm/IMG_1014.JPG[/img]
Posted by: JD - 24 January 2011 10:01:22
And you were caught on camera Rob!
https://www.ndr.de/fernsehen/sendungen/hallo_niedersachsen/media/hallonds1315.html
Posted by: Rattletrap - 24 January 2011 10:10:14
[quote=55Kab]WOW :!:
Fast works guys. Can imagine you couldn't wait to get her all together so I would have worked through the night too!
Looks perfect. :beer: [/quote]
Would take you longer Martin – fitting an adjustable beam and [i]Earlies[/i] takes extra time.:sneaky:
Posted by: oval56 - 24 January 2011 10:14:11
[quote=Rattletrap]Would take you longer Martin – fitting an adjustable beam and [i]Earlies[/i] takes extra time.:sneaky:
[/quote]
[-x nope, they run a frontaxle without shocktowers...so only to put drop spindels in and cut it on the outside...:p :omg:
Posted by: JD - 24 January 2011 11:01:59
[quote=oval56][-x nope, they run a frontaxle without shocktowers...so only to put drop spindels in and cut it on the outside...:p :omg: [/quote]
I can see you´ve given this some thought Andi!:d
Posted by: zelensis61 - 24 January 2011 11:40:24
Here you can see a tv report...Only in german but enjoy the picts. you were caught on camera Rob...:d
https://www.ndr.de/fernsehen/sendungen/hallo_niedersachsen/media/hallonds1315.html
Hope the link works.
Posted by: lifeintheslowlane - 24 January 2011 13:44:37
[quote=zelensis61]Here you can see a tv report...Only in german but enjoy the picts. you were caught on camera Rob...:d
https://www.ndr.de/fernsehen/sendungen/hallo_niedersachsen/media/hallonds1315.html
Hope the link works.[/quote]
Hmmm yeah...against my better judgement but I did a screen-grab from the video.:wink:
[img]https://vwjudsonregister.tripod.com/IMAGES/2011-rob.JPG[/img]
Posted by: Rattletrap - 24 January 2011 14:30:18
All that press attention and fuss over an old Beetle.:?
There'll be a lot of fuss made over it if it goes to [i]Lavenham[/i] – but then again maybe not if [i]Rattletrap's[/i] there.:p
Posted by: GKL 7 - 24 January 2011 17:01:43
[quote=JD]And you were caught on camera Rob!
https://www.ndr.de/fernsehen/sendungen/hallo_niedersachsen/media/hallonds1315.html
[/quote]
He's for it now,he'd told the wife he was going to see his girlfriend:roll:
Posted by: zelensis61 - 28 January 2011 16:40:56
fast forward as usual...the car is out of its shed.... and rolling on its own power. Electric is finished and working:omg: [ATTACH]5406[/Attach] [ATTACH]5407[/Attach] [ATTACH]5408[/Attach] [ATTACH]5409[/Attach] [ATTACH]5410[/Attach] [ATTACH]5411[/Attach]
Posted by: Rattletrap - 28 January 2011 18:17:19
It really makes you realise how 'right' the design was. Most people would notice little or no change at all between this and a 1952 pre-October [i]Standard[/i] model.
The stop light arrangement would seem more sensible than that of the production model though – on top rather than inside/underneath the license light unit.:smile:
Posted by: 54 Gertie - 28 January 2011 18:28:35
[quote=Rattletrap]It really makes you realise how 'right' the design was. Most people would notice little or no change at all between this and a 1952 pre-October [i]Standard[/i] model.
The stop light arrangement would seem more sensible than that of the production model though – on top rather than inside/underneath the license light unit.:smile:
[/quote]
Yep.
To your average man on the street, it'd be no different to a 60's Beetle.
Posted by: Rattletrap - 28 January 2011 18:33:50
[quote=54 Gertie]Yep.
To your average man on the street, it'd be no different to a 60's Beetle. [/quote]
…and a '60s would look the same as a 2003 Mexican Beetle to most too. :wink:
Posted by: pre67vw - 12 February 2011 17:12:55
Got the latest issue of Volksworld this morning, it has an article about the VW38 wedding in it, ok - I confess, I wrote it :thumbup: But now I've read it, I wish I could rewrite parts of it... Ah well, too late now.
Posted by: Jules - 13 February 2011 01:27:24
[quote=pre67vw]Got the latest issue of Volksworld this morning, it has an article about the VW38 wedding in it, ok - I confess, I wrote it :thumbup: But now I've read it, I wish I could rewrite parts of it... Ah well, too late now. [/quote]
I thought it read really well and I'm pretty sure everyone else will too, Good Job!!
Posted by: 54 Gertie - 13 February 2011 10:46:02
Read really nicely, and great photos Julian as well!
I know what you mean about doubting what you've written. I wrote a 'show report' for a new on-line 'E-zine' about Hessich '09, and as soon as I saw it live I wished I could have changed some things. Same with the photos, started to wish I had spent more time playing about with them as they were basically straight out of a compact camera.
8)
Posted by: lifeintheslowlane - 13 February 2011 11:20:28
I'm sure it reads perfectly...if not there's always the "old hack's" standby...blame it on typos and poor editing.:wink:
Posted by: pre67vw - 13 February 2011 12:14:10
[quote=lifeintheslowlane]I'm sure it reads perfectly...if not there's always the "old hack's" standby...blame it on typos and poor editing.:wink: [/quote]
Yeah, any errors or grammatical problems are Ivans fault :thumbup:
Photos are great though aren't they? And a 4 page spread on a vintage car that's not even finished yet... Well done Volksworld 8)
[quote=pre67vw]Volksworld wallpaper image:[/quote]
Other car enthusiasts must think we're an odd lot, always photographing the back of the car. Most everyone else takes pictures of the front of a vehicle.:?
Smashing though, shows how the back remained virtually the same until the oval window was introduced. I can almost see a certain face looking back at me here…[i]bless![/i]:roll:
Posted by: pre67vw - 14 February 2011 15:24:42
[quote=Rattletrap]Other car enthusiasts must think we're an odd lot, always photographing the back of the car. Most everyone else takes pictures of the front of a vehicle.:?
[/quote]
There are photos of the front in the magazine feature :wink:
Posted by: Rattletrap - 14 February 2011 15:29:58
[quote=pre67vw]There are photos of the front in the magazine feature :wink: [/quote]
Yes, but we do prefer the back of a Beetle, but no other VW's rear-end, and you chose the rear-end pic too Rob.:wink:
Good grief... and all done in less time than it takes me to walk to the garage, open the door, decide not to do anything to my car and close it again.
Bloody lovely.
Posted by: JD - 16 February 2011 21:26:23
[quote=64rotbox]Good grief... and all done in less time than it takes me to walk to the garage, open the door, decide not to do anything to my car and close it again.
Bloody lovely.[/quote]
Yup! Beautiful.
It takes me longer than that to ruin something.
Posted by: 55Kab - 17 February 2011 05:47:37
[quote=pre67vw]It's finished... :omg: [/quote]
No it's not, the interior door handles have gone AWOL... :wink:
Posted by: 55Kab - 17 February 2011 05:57:20
Anyway...this is just fantastic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSa40VqwsuM&feature=player_embedded
I love the sound, think I've gone for the wrong engine/box combo in my 55 :rofl: [-x
Oh...and someone PLEASE tell me how you get a YT video to apprear ready to start as a screen in a post!!! I copied the embedded stuff whatever that is but it didn't work.
Posted by: lifeintheslowlane - 17 February 2011 08:04:46
[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSa40VqwsuM[/YOUTUBE]
Don't use the embed code. Place the normal link code inside the youtube code which you'll find as an option when you click [BB/] in the reply panel.
[quote=lifeintheslowlane]Don't use the embed code. Place the normal link code inside the youtube code which you'll find as an option when you click [BB/] in the reply panel.[/quote]
Damn my slow fingers...:roll: :rofl:
Posted by: lifeintheslowlane - 17 February 2011 08:09:36
[quote=54 Gertie]Damn my slow fingers...:roll: :rofl: [/quote]
One up to ME!!:p
Posted by: Rattletrap - 17 February 2011 12:18:54
A VW38 constructed quicker than I could have drawn one.:beer:
Amazing that the most famous Volkswagens seem to all be black split-window Beetles! :smile:
Posted by: Rattletrap - 17 February 2011 18:12:15
[quote=Rattletrap]…i notice the rear window has two ribs inside and a sharper profile on the inside too…[/quote]
Above from my post on page #1. It is rather different…:mellow:
:omg: What fascinates me is the door panels are the same as in my '47, which also has metal hand-rail front seats.:shock: :?
I'm a bit confussed:o [ATTACH]5500[/Attach] [ATTACH]5504[/Attach]
Posted by: Rattletrap - 18 February 2011 10:56:52
Here's a picture of the driver's door on my unrestored '47 Beetle.
[b]edit by pre67vw[/b]
I'm not suggestion that the [i]Grundmann's[/i] panel isnt accurate though, just thought it was an interesting observation...
(you see how different that is?)
[b]end of edit[/b]
:x Naughty Rob. [-x
[ATTACH]5535[/Attach]
A point that comes to mind about the VW38s is would they have all been identical.:?
For instance, the Tatra T97s were very much a hand-built car. The result being that no two were the same.
As the VW38 were test (prototype) cars, would it be unreasonable to consider that they may have also tried out different interior fabrics and designs to test durability for wear and tear.:mellow:
Posted by: pre67vw - 21 February 2011 12:06:32
[quote=Rattletrap]A point that comes to mind about the VW38s is would they have all been identical.:?
For instance, the Tatra T97s were very much a hand-built car. The result being that no two were the same.
As the VW38 were test (prototype) cars, would it be unreasonable to consider that they may have also tried out different interior fabrics and designs to test durability for wear and tear.:mellow:
[/quote]
No they weren't all the same, as these were also hand made. But once they identified which one it was (#6) then you just need to make sure your reference material is also from #6. The good thing about these cars is that they were surrounded by a lot of press and propaganda, so a lot of photos exist if you know where to look.
Posted by: pre67vw - 21 February 2011 12:18:15
some details... [ATTACH]5589[/Attach] [ATTACH]5590[/Attach] [ATTACH]5591[/Attach] [ATTACH]5592[/Attach] [ATTACH]5593[/Attach] [ATTACH]5594[/Attach]
Posted by: Rattletrap - 21 February 2011 12:25:26
I am still intrigued by the door panels on my '47 being similar to the reconstructed VW38. Also, they are screw fitted too, like the VW38s.:shock:
This 1947 Beetle is a largely unrestored car (albeit a repaint and bumper chroming has been undertaken many years ago). It has hand-rail seats too, but again different to the VW38s.:?
Although requiring some underbody welding, it appears to never had any done previously, so as '47s go is pretty well un-messed with and very original in metal. Not many '47s left now that have not undergone a rebuild to show condition.
Posted by: pre67vw - 21 February 2011 12:48:07
[quote=Rattletrap] It has hand-rail seats too, but again different to the VW38s.:? [/quote]
The police Hebmüllers and Paplers had hand-rail seats as well, I guess they were the cheapest option.
The other thing to remember is that not every component on the prototypes was made especially for the car, they took some components from other production cars of the time.
Posted by: pre67vw - 21 February 2011 14:22:04
[quote=Rattletrap] It has hand-rail seats too, but again different to the VW38s.:?
[/quote]
Also, don't forget that the 47 came from Wolfsburg - the VW38 comes from 500km away in Stuttgart, there is nothing I could see on the 38 that is the same as a production car, so I'm not suprised at all that the seats are different from a car made 9 years later in a completely different place.
Posted by: Rattletrap - 29 March 2011 15:28:08
[quote=pre67vw]… I'm not suprised at all that the seats are different from a car made 9 years later in a completely different place.[/quote]
Yes but same but different, I've not seen a '46 or '47 with handrail seats.
Yep, the carpet edgings colour and fit are the same as in my '47 too.
Looks like I need to investigate my '47, if that's what it is. :?
[ATTACH]5769[/Attach]
Posted by: Bjoern - 29 March 2011 16:24:38
[quote=Rattletrap]Yes but same but different, I've not seen a '46 or '47 with handrail seats.
Yep, the carpet edgings colour and fit are the same as in my '47 too.
Looks like I need to investigate my '47, if that's what it is. :?
[/quote]
Even on my mangogreen 1959, the doorpanels look different... Please note the position of the inner door handle in the VW38 and your 1947 - so you should find out that you are talking about two absolutly different panels. But it is interesing, that your car has this liners
Posted by: Rattletrap - 29 March 2011 16:49:01
[quote=Bjoern]Even on my mangogreen 1959, the doorpanels look different... [/quote]
1959 is not a split-window Beetle and is a totally different car.:?
My '47 has a lot of similarities with the [i]VW38[/i] as I've mentioned. Then there's those KdF style seats it has…:wink:
Posted by: Mike Peckham - 29 March 2011 17:31:12
[quote=Rattletrap]My '47 has a lot of similarities with the [i]VW38[/i] as I've mentioned. Then there's those KdF style seats it has…:wink:
[/quote]
Perhaps it was a 1947 Prototype of the 1938 VW38! :unsure:
Mike :thumbup:
Posted by: Rattletrap - 29 March 2011 17:44:40
[quote=Mike Peckham]Perhaps it was a 1947 Prototype of the 1938 VW38! :unsure:
Mike :thumbup:
[/quote]
No wrong way round. As it has a lot of pre 1947 fittings I'd say it could have been part of a pre-production batch. In 1947 the factory were still organising for full-out production, parts were in short supply with early parts being salvaged to get the first few cars out.:mellow:
[i]Rattletrap[/i] which I guess you are referring to, on the other hand was kitted out with all 'later' pre-production parts to create the experimental batch of cars that Tony Levy referred to. [i]Rattletrap[/i] was part of a batch of 100 units according to Tony.:smile:
Posted by: Bjoern - 29 March 2011 22:38:44
[quote=Rattletrap]No wrong way round. As it has a lot of pre 1947 fittings I'd say it could have been part of a pre-production batch. In 1947 the factory were still organising for full-out production, parts were in short supply with early parts being salvaged to get the first few cars out.:mellow:
[i]Rattletrap[/i] which I guess you are referring to, on the other hand was kitted out with all 'later' pre-production parts to create the experimental batch of cars that Tony Levy referred to. [i]Rattletrap[/i] was part of a batch of 100 units according to Tony.:smile:
[/quote]
Maybe you should see the 38 with your own eyes so that you understand that the car is in EVERY detail completely different to a regular KDF. And a 1947 is also completely different in most of to a KDF as my Mangogreen or a mexican beetle. But I trust you if you say that the panels on your car are original - and curious for a 1947 too. In the early years after the war, Ivan Hirst tried to build the beetles with a lot of improsivation in reason of the unclear situations of the deliverers. But Porsche build the first Prototypes by Hand in Stuttgart, which is round about 400 Miles far Away from Wolfsburg - and Stuttgart was not in the British sector After the war. There can't be a large stock with untouched prototypeparts in Wolfsburg,
Posted by: pre67vw - 30 March 2011 10:46:45
[quote=Bjoern]Maybe you should see the 38 with your own eyes so that you understand that the car is in EVERY detail completely different to a regular KDF. And a 1947 is also completely different in most of to a KDF as my Mangogreen or a mexican beetle. But I trust you if you say that the panels on your car are original - and curious for a 1947 too. In the early years after the war, Ivan Hirst tried to build the beetles with a lot of improsivation in reason of the unclear situations of the deliverers. But Porsche build the first Prototypes by Hand in Stuttgart, which is round about 400 Miles far Away from Wolfsburg - and Stuttgart was not in the British sector After the war. There can't be a large stock with untouched prototypeparts in Wolfsburg, [/quote]
Yep, I agree with this 100%.
Although the 38 looks like a split beetle, when you look closely you start to notice that every single element is just a little different.
Posted by: Rattletrap - 30 March 2011 11:24:45
[quote=Bjoern]… But Porsche build the first Prototypes by Hand in Stuttgart, which is round about 400 Miles far Away from Wolfsburg - and Stuttgart was not in the British sector After the war. There can't be a large stock with untouched prototypeparts in Wolfsburg, [/quote]
I don't see how you can even consider a 1959 or absurdly, a Mexican Beetle (hugely manufactured cars in highly organised production lines) in a debate between a 1938 and 1947 saloon.
The 1945-47 cars were often put together with whatever parts were available as large parts supply from manufacturers were still difficult until around 1948.
Excess prototypes parts such as seats, card cloth panels and carpets would seem reasonable to me, unlike body and mechanical items.
I can't see that it was so unlikely that whatever was available at Stuttgart would not have been put on a train to Wolfsburg.:wink:
Posted by: 54 Gertie - 30 March 2011 12:08:02
Are we still talking about how your door card looks [i]'similar'[/i] the the '38?
It looks similar, in the same way my car has been mistake for a 2CV...
Posted by: Rattletrap - 30 March 2011 12:58:24
[quote=54 Gertie]Are we still talking about how your door card looks [i]'similar'[/i] the the '38?
It looks similar, in the same way my car has been mistake for a 2CV... [/quote]
There are none so blind as those that will not see. :bored:
Sometimes I feel just like packing everything away into old [i]Rattletrap[/i] and driving off into the sunset…:unsure:
Posted by: pre67vw - 30 March 2011 13:04:28
[quote=Rattletrap]I don't see how you can even consider a 1959 or absurdly, a Mexican Beetle (hugely manufactured cars in highly organised production lines) in a debate between a 1938 and 1947 saloon.
The 1945-47 cars were often put together with whatever parts were available as large parts supply from manufacturers were still difficult until around 1948.
Excess prototypes parts such as seats, card cloth panels and carpets would seem reasonable to me, unlike body and mechanical items.
I can't see that it was so unlikely that whatever was available at Stuttgart would not have been put on a train to Wolfsburg.:wink:
[/quote]
I disagree, the prototype cars were hand built prototypes. There would be no reason to make excess items of anything, in fact there were differences between the different '38 parts. You can't get a bunch of door panels made up for doors that haven't been made yet and that may vary from any previous doors made.
And then to ship them 400 miles to Wolfsburg and to keep them through the war, is a bit of a long shot at best.
More likely is that made the door panels in '47 and copied the design from old photographs...
Also, the '38 and a '47 are as far apart as a '47 and a mexican Beetle. The only part I could see (after hours of looking) from a 'normal' split that would fit on the '38 was the bumper iron grommets.
Posted by: lifeintheslowlane - 30 March 2011 13:16:55
I go away for a couple of weeks and get back to find John is still ploughing the same old lonely furrow.:roll:
John, Rob has just stated the most likely scenario and it's very apposite you should quote the proverb, "none so blind as those who will not see"...you're reading a paragraph and interpreting the rest of the book...give it up.
Posted by: 64rotbox - 30 March 2011 13:23:26
[quote=Rattletrap]
Sometimes I feel just like packing everything away into old [i]**********[/i] and driving off into the sunset…:unsure:
[/quote]
I'm sure there's plenty of us who'd chip in for the petrol.
Posted by: JD - 30 March 2011 13:43:34
[quote=pre67vw] You can't get a bunch of door panels made up for doors that haven't been made yet and that may vary from any previous doors made. [/quote]
...and the doors themselves aren´t even consistently the same as each other. It´s all hand made stuff. You can´t simply take it and expect it to go anywhere near fitting onto a production car.
Posted by: pre67vw - 30 March 2011 13:53:40
I'm of the opinion that now the car is finished, this thread is done.
:thumbup:
