Hi guys,
last week i took Heb 715 apart. Some weldings were very strange and so i checked the papers and the orginal pink slip of the car.
The cars pink slip is the orginal from 1951 and as manfator is written MAHAG Munich.
The id plate also says as producer MAHAG.
The papers from VW museum say about the chassis number that VW just delivered a chassis to MAHAG. ( no complet car )
So if you put all this information together - you can asume that MAHAG became a new HEB body and they then put the car together.
So all cars after 715 or even befor must be build together by some VW dealers or so and not by Hebmüller.
What do you guys think ?
Bye Christian

An interesting theory... I think Peter may have info on this.

The raised circle for the VW badge on the engine cover is not original I assume?

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Hi Christian .
Congrats to you and your wife and the grand parents with that lovely litle girl Victoria. I wish her al the luck and love in the world.
Just one thing...do not keep her in the gutterbahnhof with al the other collectebles ...Altough she is complete and original , keep her safe and warm with Mama und Papa at home.

About the last Heb....To be honnest.. I have no clue what car is made finaly in the wuppertaller factory.
As Christain pointed. The car is built on a new floorpan. The question is...what body did they used?

If there was stock at Hebmuller with finished panels; It is possible that these parts were sold after the "konkurs" . I assume that the left over parts, molds, presses and tools were sold to pay the bank if they were not bought or claimed by VW? According to documents at hebmuller.com, the parts and tools, cars, chassis are property of VW.

If those parts were on the market or could be ordered at VW, it is almost certain that a customer could ordered a hebmuller car
Or a car was ordered just before the moment of bankrupt .

To build a Hebmuller car you need certain parts.
1: A hebmuller engine cover.
2: The air intake pannel
3: the roofmechanism.
4: good skills, knowledge of welding and metalforming and...time.

The front windowframe is almost the same as an split convertible, as the window and the front reinforcementpannels.
It is possible that a complete front is ordered at Karmann..( not sure but if you can order a floorpan, you can order all the parts.
You graft some sema boxes in and ...voila: The front is ready.

The back part...except the engine cover and air intake is only : bending, cutting and welding metal in such a way that you make a Hebmuller back part. Voila: the back is ready.

The roofmechanisme can be made , duplicated or copied from a existing Heb...MAHAG is not your average VW dealership I guess.
Remember the replica at BAD CAMBERG this year.

I have to look close to the picts from that car to find differences in the building process.
Maybe Christian can send me some "naked body "pict after sandblasting or a discription of the Odd weldings. ( of the car I mean?)

The main question is how many cars are ordered from VW at Hebmuller; It is written all over the net and in books that only 696 cars are made...
If they start at car nr 14-00001 the last one made is 14-00696.
What with the cars above 696? If you count the 3 proto"s and the only "vorserienfahrzeug" you get 700 cars and then is Car nr 5 the oldest one. But that is not correct.
I have the VIN nrs from car nr 1 , 2, 3 and 4 and also the VIN of proto 1, 2 and 3 AND the vorserienfahrzeug that was in April 49 at the Geneva autoshow.

In a letter at Bruce his site I read that VW wrote to Hebmuller they have to commit the order of 675 Cars? and an agreement to deliver 675 chassis with body parts.
33 body's are destroyed in the fire...did they received a nr before the fire was there? :?
are those restored in those days? :? or trown away to get cut in parts.

The fire was 23/7/49. Teufelheb is dated 21/07/49 and is for sure one of the last hebs made with constructed engine cover. After that and for sure car 65 is with pressed engine lid and also in Belgium this moment.

I will compare the picts of car 715 with others but it will be tough.
My guess, and it is my thinking, al the cars above 700 are not made in Wuppertall. DO NOT SHOOT ME IF I AM WRONG. :roll:

If somebody knows the answer...HELP US PLEASE :cry:
Greetings ? Peter.

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Anyone has a gun? 😃 😃 😃 😃 😃 😃 😃

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Mr VINTAGE VW:
Watch your mouth...young man :evil: Klep toe... 😃
I have a gun. A legal one, and a licence to kill if I need to shoot if someone is in danger... 😎 and that includes myself.
And I know where you live, what car you drive daily...( that alone is a reason to shoot............ and know what is in your barn... I know a lot...

Just kidding. The only thing on those cars I like is the Blitz.. :lol:

Greetings Pascal

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I raise my hands up! 😃 :lol: 😃 :lol: 😃 :lol:

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Just keep in mind that 33 bodies were destroyed in the fire. This also indicates that there are bodynumbers higher than the official production number.

Also did not the bodynumbers come in the ascending order. For example the body 735 was finished in -51 and the body 730 in -53, or the three first as follows:
Prototype number two (body nr 14-00002) was finished in January the 8th 1949
Prototype number one (body nr. 14-00001) was finished in the 21 March 1949
Prototype number three (body nr 14-0003) was finished in June 26th 1949
Testcar number four (body nr. 14-00004), which was finished in July 18th, 1949.

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Kristian Hebster,
Hello. Your explenation on the proto's is correct but not the bodynumbers you mentioned.
The car you call "Testcar number four (body nr. 14-00004), which was finished in July 18th, 1949 " is not the test car.
This pré production model was shown at the Geneva autoshow in the beginning of April 49.

To my opinion the 3 Prototypes and the (4th) Pre production car did not get a hebmuller serial number in the front as the chassisnumbers are known and are not the same as on car 1 to 4.
Again after compairing the details on car nr 12 I am still convincede that it is not the body of car 12 but the body of car 1 or it is re-built with the remains of that car..

In the files at Hebmuller.com it is written that 33 cars are destroyed or burned... I can not imagine that they were all beyond repair.
A company that struggle with moneyproblems after a fire, whould, to my opinion again, not trown away a finished shell but cut up the "to be saved parts" and whould be used to be grafted on a new body.

Sadly it is not written what happend to those cars.
Also it is not known when the cars did receive the bodynumber at the start of the productionline or just before they got painted?

I have noticed a pict from the heb factory where the finishing toutch is layed on several cars . On each car you see on the window a number with 2 digits. On 1 car you see a number of 5 digits but it does not fit in the Aufbuanumbers..It is too big in numbers.

I can not find the pict now as I am not at home and have my lunch break at work.

Greetings. I am open to any info on this as it keeps me going on with this history.
I am sure that Christian, the newly father can help us out some day.
To Christian : I am planning the dates like you asked, You will get soon a mail from me .

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Hey Mr wiseguy guido. :idea: . you hang out with ET ? You have took over his jokes. :lol:

This site is in command of a English man..not in New york but on the UK...
Therefore the time is different as in Belgium.
And If I am hungry, I eat.

I am my own boss. If I say something has to be done, I do it. myself :roll: .
And now I go back to work...yess, that is correct. My wife asked me to scrob the floor and afterwards I have to cook some diner , wash the dishes, wash the cars .... :lol:

How are you anyway?
Greetings .

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SO here I am again, The work is finished..

I have found the pict but if I put it here you cannot see it anymore as I have to reduce size from 6mb to 250 kb and it will not clear.
I think it is in the hebmuller book from a few years ago.

In the pict you see at least 10 to 15 hebs, in the middle there is a man handpainting a doorhing. There is a worker sitting in the back and there is one behind the steering wheel. A worklight is hanging on the front bumper. There are 3 lines of cars and in the middle lane you see on the second row that car I mentioned;
All cars in the pict wear a 2 digit nr on the front windowscreen
Left side = 86, behind that one 87 ; The car with 3 workers shows this number in the front window: 19718.
The biggest aufbau nr in my list is 19602 and it belongs to a car that is pretty close to car 696.... :shock:

The cars made after august 51 are in the book die edel kafer written as 14 pieces. so that is the end of production.

So aufbau 19602 + 14 pieces is not yet 19718 and that is to me not the aufbaunumber in that pict. ( even if they have made 100 other items meanwhile )

I wonder what nr is there written.

Secondly , as we speak about numbers.
A heb owner mailed me that while he was checking his car before restoration he found a chalked or painted hand written 3 digit number on the panel between front beam and inside compartiment.
This number is likely or coincidently the partial aufbaunumber of his car except 1 digit.
It read ( not real as the man want to keep the data for only few people)
482 and the aufbau is like 432. the nr is unclear and the digits are aprox 40 mm on 30 mm

If anyone have info on this , feel free to answer..
Thank you.
Greetings.

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