If you looked really closely you will see why the CSP ghia won best of show by scoring 99points out of a possible 100.

ianmac wrote:

I'm not doubting that it won 99 out of 100, the question I was getting at was does the points system take into consideration the amount of effort required?

Generally on a racecar a large number of parts are either binned for lightness or brand new race items bolted in. Paint aside, it's got to be harder to restore a car to that standard?

For example, taking a speedo apart - getting the chrome parts re-chromed, dial repainted, mechanics restored and then putting it all back together is a lot harder than bolting in a brand new autometer speedo out of a box, but which gets more points? if there was a slight flaw in the restored one presumably then it would lose points?

pre67vw wrote:

Impossible to judge really, as it isn´t comparing like with like.

JD wrote:

So, discussing whether a restocal or a drag car should have won on a Vintage VW website!!!!

:roll: :smile: :rofl: :d 😛 :d :wink:

six-o-one wrote:

My favourite car there was the CCG split anyway 😛

pre67vw wrote:

When a totally stock VW wins BoS people moan - when a modified VW wins...
The CSP Karmann Ghia was built a few years back and has been running in red oxide primer. The owner, Peter Köhmann promised that when it had run a 8 second quarter mile - it was been time for it to be painted. It ran 8.7 seconds last year - making it the fastest car with a VW crankcase. Over the winter it was totally stripped, everything was painted (and as mentioned the paint is a work of art) and then it was rebuilt. The problem was that the new paint work made everything look substandard so virtually everything had to be replaced or restored.

To make sure no one could suggest the judging was rigged - the CSP Ghia was judged by Gavin Jones - the chap who painted Martin Fenner's car. He could not believe how good the car was! He gave it 99 out of 100.

Martin's car took Visitor's Choice - which is a great award. The visitors would not judge the car by looking for faults, they would judge it on personal feelings. So, this would mean the areas which the judge would have marked it down would not be in the picture. You may not be bothered that the driver's door side trim was half an inch different the the rear quarter trim or that there had not been time do do little jobs such as fitting the front seat - but the judge is.

Whatever car wins, someone will always have their own opinion that differs. There were actually six cars that could have taken Best of Show after the CSP car. The next scored 93 and it was not Martin's car, it was Johnny Grigg's Beetle. Simon Fox's Squareback was also way up there and what a piece of work that car is! It would have been 7 cars if Dave Forder had got his finished in time!
Ianmac - You're spot on!

69project - Tittle tattle... You said it! So lame it's nearly funny. One phone call to Gavin Jones at Trailer Queen Restos - who judges it will put you straight. Total hogwash and Cod's wallop.

JD - Impossible to judge really, as it isn´t comparing like with like - This is what makes it so hard, it's down to the quality and style of the car. And a Vintage car has every reason to win if it is better than anything else at the event. Equally a Resto Cal.


I think we should be celebrating the fact that so many top quality cars - whatever the style are being built and we can enjoy looking at the hard work that goes into them.

Ivan wrote:

When a totally stock VW wins BoS people moan - when a modified VW wins...
The CSP Karmann Ghia was built a few years back and has been running in red oxide primer. The owner, Peter Köhmann promised that when it had run a 8 second quarter mile - it was been time for it to be painted. It ran 8.7 seconds last year - making it the fastest car with a VW crankcase. Over the winter it was totally stripped, everything was painted (and as mentioned the paint is a work of art) and then it was rebuilt. The problem was that the new paint work made everything look substandard so virtually everything had to be replaced or restored.

To make sure no one could suggest the judging was rigged - the CSP Ghia was judged by Gavin Jones - the chap who painted Martin Fenner's car. He could not believe how good the car was! He gave it 99 out of 100.

Martin's car took Visitor's Choice - which is a great award. The visitors would not judge the car by looking for faults, they would judge it on personal feelings. So, this would mean the areas which the judge would have marked it down would not be in the picture. You may not be bothered that the driver's door side trim was half an inch different the the rear quarter trim or that there had not been time do do little jobs such as fitting the front seat - but the judge is.

Whatever car wins, someone will always have their own opinion that differs. There were actually six cars that could have taken Best of Show after the CSP car. The next scored 93 and it was not Martin's car, it was Johnny Grigg's Beetle. Simon Fox's Squareback was also way up there and what a piece of work that car is! It would have been 7 cars if Dave Forder had got his finished in time!
Ianmac - You're spot on!

69project - Tittle tattle... You said it! So lame it's nearly funny. One phone call to Gavin Jones at Trailer Queen Restos - who judges it will put you straight. Total hogwash and Cod's wallop.

JD - Impossible to judge really, as it isn´t comparing like with like - This is what makes it so hard, it's down to the quality and style of the car. And a Vintage car has every reason to win if it is better than anything else at the event. Equally a Resto Cal.


I think we should be celebrating the fact that so many top quality cars - whatever the style are being built and we can enjoy looking at the hard work that goes into them.

Ivan wrote:

i guess it should also be a fully functioning, driving car that wins!

RockStock wrote:

:? Seems to run pretty well. Quite nippy, one might almost say.

JD wrote:

I wondered if this topic would get a reply from you... :wink:

I don't think anyone was moaning that the CSP car won, well I wasn't in any case - just find it strange that some of these cars can compete against each other, but I guess thats the name of the game.

But then again thats one of the reasons that there's not many vintage cars that go in for this kind of thing. As I understand it, the points favour replacement over originality and most vintage people think the other way round.

pre67vw wrote:

A stocker or vintage car would be judged for originality, correctness and quality of workmanship. There is NO reason a Stock VW can not win Best of Show.

Ivan wrote:

From 20 years of experience - I can tell you one thing, it doesn't matter what you do someone will always find a way to question it.

Ivan wrote:

I think it takes a certain kind of person to build a car that can compete for BoS, one that is anal beyond any sane amounts

pre67vw wrote:

there's no way I'm going to ever own anything that comes close to being inside the arena let alone the top 20

pre67vw wrote:

But then again thats one of the reasons that there's not many vintage cars that go in for this kind of thing. As I understand it, the points favour replacement over originality and most vintage people think the other way round.

pre67vw wrote: