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ianmac
16 years ago
I am building a performance 30hp type one engine and wondered if a porsche 356 oil cooler would fit in place of the existing vw oil cooler, it looks like it will?? I hoped it would offer better oil cooling.
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JD
  • JD
  • pre67vw Junkie
16 years ago

I am building a performance 30hp type one engine and wondered if a porsche 356 oil cooler would fit in place of the existing vw oil cooler, it looks like it will?? I hoped it would offer better oil cooling.

ianmac wrote:



From what I have been told, it will fit and cool better.
"John, you need to get a grip and STOP MOANING AT EVERYTHING. ThumbDown "
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lifeintheslowlane
16 years ago
You would think fitting the more efficient 912/356 Cooler would be a simple fix. Yes they do physically fit with a little tapping of the top of the fanshroud as they are slightly taller.

The thing is because they channel away more heat, whilst they lower oil temperatures, they also raise head temperatures for two reasons. The first because as I say they channel more heat away but blow this over number 3 cylinder and they cast a larger "shadow" than the stock cooler which has always been a problem with number 3.

A couple of years ago this was discussed on The Samba...you can read it here:Samba Topic 
John.
oval56
16 years ago
:d nice one of my started threads :-)

for information, i do had my kinds of external and internal oilcooling systems on my 36hp engines but to the 912 or 356 cooler i can tell some good and bad things...

if your maxium driving speed will not rise, or better if you drife not faster than with your original engine, you can use it, the temperature is about 10degrees cooler as with teh original one..

BUT the air circulation on the 3. cylinder is even worser than with the stock oilcooler!
here is a result of my 57 rat i owned, wich also had a 36hp dualcarb engien with some modifications ( higher compression, bigger valves...) so in end i got back to stock oilcooling, and this worked also fine

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lifeintheslowlane
16 years ago
Yes I was following that Sampa Topic with interest Andi. It was mostly yourself and Peter Plade (Neilsen) doing the experimentation and the rest of us saved money by carrying out your findings.:lol: Thanks.

An interesting point here is the use of the Okrasa Cooling Spiral seems to have much the same effect...lowering oil temperatures and raising head temperatures.

It seems to me if you're running modifications that need additional cooling it's best done away from the top of the engine. Fitting a sump extension and running with an extra quart of oil will do this simply and relatively cheaply.
John.
oval56
16 years ago
yes, peter used it by his judson, and i on my both 36hp oldspeed engines, but you are right, useing an original one is much better ...
and second to mention is, for my oiltemperatures my piston setup was not really unguilty... i used the fiat 500 pistons bore 77,6mm and the pistonrings are half thik than original volkswagen rings, so the heat will rise and rise if you get a heavy shoe on the gaspedal :d

in general for 36 hp vintage speed engines i would not use teh porsche cooler if:
-the compression ratio rises (do have actual 8,75:1)
-the driver uses the gained power of the engine to get a higher driving speed on long distanze turns
-the cylinderheads do not have new seatrings for the valves (actual material)


to the okrasa spiral, i do not have any problems with, if it is right installed and not to flat behind the shroud to cover much area to the fan....

my actual setup is also working very well with my extern oilcooler / full flow system

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Peter_Plade
16 years ago
In my new old speed project I won´t put a 356 cooler on. In stead there will be a oil sump and a okrasa style cooler.
So I´m pretty exited to see how that turns out.
I have a 356 cooler lying if I feel like comparing the oil temp with and without on my new setup.
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http://vw-bluehats.blogspot.com/ 
ianmac
16 years ago
Thanks for the info guys, really got me thinking.

I have been looking for a 30HP (36HP USA) deep sump, it seems the only people who sell them are Gene Berg, but they have been out of stock for a long time and cannot tell me when they will have anymore.

Does anyone know of a supplier for 30hp deep sumps?

Finally I have a couple of 30HP motors which I was going to use as the basis for my motor, but I was concerned that as they are both 50+ years old, showing some end float and probably been to the moon and back that I should have the case line bored. Does anyone know of someone in the UK who could carry out this task for me?

Many thanks

Ian
GKL 7
16 years ago

Does anyone know of someone in the UK who could carry out this task for me?

ianmac wrote:




John Maher.
Search by name or JMR(John Maher Racing)
THE BEST !!!!
Peter_Plade
16 years ago
I had the same problem with the Berg people, so I put up wanted ad on thesamba and found one this way, only mounted 1 hour on the car. And including shipping still cheaper than Berg´s price.
http://vw-bluehats.blogspot.com/ 
JD
  • JD
  • pre67vw Junkie
16 years ago
Are you guys running Fram style filters? Have you noticed a lower temperature, because of the extra oil in the system? Just curious.

I also had the idea that you could put a hump on top of the fan shroud to get more air over the 356 cooler. What do you think? A dumb idea, or possible?
"John, you need to get a grip and STOP MOANING AT EVERYTHING. ThumbDown "
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lifeintheslowlane
16 years ago

Are you guys running Fram style filters? Have you noticed a lower temperature, because of the extra oil in the system? Just curious.

I also had the idea that you could put a hump on top of the fan shroud to get more air over the 356 cooler. What do you think? A dumb idea, or possible?

JD wrote:



When I was running a Fram on my '59 it certainly cooled the oil temperature. How much is hard to tell but if the canister gets hot then it's a given that it's extracting that heat from the oil. Add to that the extra oil you're running through the engine and you have a useful cooling effect.

Don't know about the hump though but I'd like to think it was a dumb idea.:wink:
John.
JD
  • JD
  • pre67vw Junkie
16 years ago



When I was running a Fram on my '59 it certainly cooled the oil temperature. How much is hard to tell but if the canister gets hot then it's a given that it's extracting that heat from the oil. Add to that the extra oil you're running through the engine and you have a useful cooling effect.

lifeintheslowlane wrote:



I wondered since its in the engine bay - all the heat might just go back in via the fan!

Don't know about the hump though but I'd like to think it was a dumb idea.:wink:

lifeintheslowlane wrote:



How I loathe you.:lol: :lol:
"John, you need to get a grip and STOP MOANING AT EVERYTHING. ThumbDown "
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Peter_Plade
16 years ago
Yes I even run a Fram filter on my standard 30ps engine.
I know it properly heat up the air a bit, but considering that you get more oil and better filtration of the oil, I would say that it´s a good idea to mount one.
http://vw-bluehats.blogspot.com/ 
Bally
16 years ago


Finally I have a couple of 30HP motors which I was going to use as the basis for my motor, but I was concerned that as they are both 50+ years old, showing some end float and probably been to the moon and back that I should have the case line bored. Does anyone know of someone in the UK who could carry out this task for me?

ianmac wrote:



Another option: https://www.ssvc.org.uk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=48149&p=367569#p367569 

Dave
lou cypher
15 years ago
Anyone tried a 356 pulley to aid cooling?

Busy building an engine with fram filtration, but also thinking of adding a 356 pulley ( slighty smaller) to aid cooling:?

Also can I ask where are you guys taking the oil temp reading, from a sump sender or a dipstick sender

and are you all running straight 30 oil
JD
  • JD
  • pre67vw Junkie
15 years ago
A smaller pulley will hurt cooling, not help it. It´ll spin the fan slower.
"John, you need to get a grip and STOP MOANING AT EVERYTHING. ThumbDown "
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lifeintheslowlane
15 years ago

A smaller pulley will hurt cooling, not help it. It´ll spin the fan slower.

JD wrote:



...but it will give you an extra 1/2hp:roll: You'd be better off fitting a 34hp fan which is more efficient than the 30hp version.
John.
overrestored
15 years ago
this is a magnesium circular oil sump used on the early Porsche two piece case race cars. I found this particular sump at a 356 swap meet. It came with a steel windage tray in it. I have seen aluminum reproductions of it at the Toy and Literature show in Los Angeles in March.




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gimmesomeshelter
15 years ago
Hello-

Keep in mind that the late model Porsche cooler is very heavy, and compared to an earlier coolers, are much more likely to cause case cracks.

I've read that removing the dust screen from a stock cooler will improve cooling.

If you want to improve oil cooling, and not risk mucking up your airflow, add an external oil cooler to your full flow filter.

If you want to experiment with a Porsche cooler, I would try one of the 'B' coolers. They aren't too heavy, and I would suspect that the airflow characteristics aren't very different from a stock cooler.

Paul



Paul Vickerman

Go Bruins!
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