:lol: :lol:

Nice one, that made me laugh.

BTW - have you thought of giving the case the Pepsi challenge? I'm told emercing the case half's in Coca-cola for 24 hrs will do it the world of good for a clean up!

With the case being magnesium, I didn't want to use anything caustic or acidic just in case (pardon the pun) but I'm delighted with the results from the methods I used so no worries.

For the record, I've e-mailed BLR engineering (from the recommendation on here) enquiring about the cost of having new valves, guides and unleaded seats fitted, along with a clean up analso to de-glaze the bores on the cylinders in prep for the new rings.

He e-mailed back saying he was on holiday and will contact me next week.

I don;t have a bottomless pit of money, so we'll see what it costs. Any ideas or experience of what this sort of opperation usually costs.

I trust this chap knows what he's doing? The website suggests he does.


Question for people.... With the exhaust valves being stuck open, I can only assume that this will have compromised the guides in some way and that clearance aside, they'll need replacing? If so, is there a type of material I should use other than stock?

Also, is it a no-brainer to replace ALL the valves whether they need it or not, especially if it's getting new seats? Likewise, do I replace with stainless, original and where is the best place to get them from?

Also - exhasut studs... leave alone or replace with new and or stainless ones?

I'm just thinking that new valves, seats, professional 3 angle valve job and guides is a really worthwhile investment in good running and longevity?

I plan to strip the heads down later today and will post pics of what I find...

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I had the heads for my '57 30BHP engine rebuilt by L&R engineering in Hove, I think they did the heads for Rich Oakley's '47 25BHP too? The valves springs etc. I bought from VW Heritage.

I had the exhaust studs replaced with stainless steel at the same time as it just seemed the sensible thing to do in terms of future proofing things.

Can't remember exactly what the total bill was (I can check later), I think it was in the region of £200 though...

The finished product was perfect, the engine runs very sweetly now with it's recon heads. Just need to bite the bullet and split the case and carry out the sort of work you're inspiring me to do now.

This contiues to be a great thrread!

Mike

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stainless studs and brass nuts for the exhaust studs is good.#
Make sure the guy knows what he is doing on the heads, I trashed one head by trying to replace the guides on it. Need to know magnesium/ally heads to be any good.

In between mowing lawns and taking the kids swimming, I removed the valves from the heads.

Having never done this before, I was a little anxious not to damage anything with my new valve spring compressor which is a great piece of kit.





I quickly came across a problem though. It would only compress a fraction, then just locked solid - all of them! Puzzled, I eventually worked out that the collects had stuck to the valve retainer and was preventing any further movement. Not a big problem during the runnng of the engine, but it makes removing the valves impossible.


To unstick the collects from the retainers, I put a 1" spacer under the valve head in the combustion chamber to stop the valve opening, then with a socket over the retainer, gave a few 'taps' with a hammer to shock them free which worked a treat. Some needed a firmer 'tap' than others, but they all came free in the end.





When they freed up, I was able to continue with the valve spring compressor as per normal. This shot shows the collets loose and ready to be fished out. I found that a magnet was the easiest way to rescue these slippery little devils!







Which left me finally with a bare head....





Mmmm - crusty!









No doubt about it - new valves and seats I think! To be fair, the intake valves are absolutely fine, but I guess I might as well do them all if the jobs going to be done at all.

Always nice to see original part number and stamps. Didn't know the valves were made by ATE.





And finally, my shrink says this picture is a backwards step, but said some progress had been made as I didn't line up all the collets in the correct order along side them in my custom valve holder.

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Superb ^^^

Reckon you could write a manual on the strip and rebuild at this rate.

Good stuff LT,
I'm gonna try the cleaning mix on my case when I get there.
yeah thats a great idea about the Manual you could be the witty UK John Muir :lol:

Witty?

:shock:

I just try and inject the human element to what I'm doing. I'm no expert, just an enthusiastic amateur trying to do stuff properly and to the best of my ability whilst learning along the way.

Thanks for encouragment everyone - it spurs me on!

Got any contact details for L&R for a second opinion? If they're good enough for Rich Oakley.... :lol:

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I´ve been told these motors respond very well to a little work. Bigger valves and one of these 356 grind cams will wake it up. Seems a pity not to do it while it´s in bits.:d

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L&R Engineering
Unit 10, Sussex House Industrial Estate Old Shoreham Road, Hove, East Sussex BN3 7DX
01273 770303

They do a lot of work on Porsches' and are familiar with the air cooled VW engine. Would have thought that there would be someone more local to you though with similar skills and experience? But if not, I would be happy to liaise with them for you.

Mike

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One thing i found when i bought new valves was that the tapered part for the collets to grip was undersize .This meant that the collet faces touched when put togehter and were not clamping around the stem.I got around it by grinding the collet faces until there was a gap .This detail is often overlooked by generic engine build shops so it might be worth mentioning to whoever does the work.

Mike

Courier costs will be the same anywhere in the country so I'm happy to go on recommendation and reputation.

Is it best just to give them the heads and ask for new valves, guides, seats, springs etc, or is it better to source all the components myself and send them with the heads in a box?

Never had this work done before so not sure what the protocol is?

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I had mine done recently and one company wouldn't touch them if I supplied the parts (in case I bought cheap rubbish), I actually went to another place and had my guides k-lined and ended up having to get the valves myself as they couldn't find any the right size.

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I bought all the necessary hardware from Heritage and supplied it to L&R as a package along with the heads. They were happy to use everything I had supplied. However, they quickly worked out that I had been supplied with 3 Exhaust Valves and 5 Inlet valves, so that delayed things a bit to start with...

If you're thinking about using L&R, I would give them a ring and talk it through with them. They would be abe to best advise you on how to proceed.

Mike

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That sounds like a plan.

It's experience with ally VW heads that apeals.

At this stage, and considering how long it has stood, I think new springs, retainers, collects and stainless exhaust studs might be good insurance for longevity.

Basically, I'll ask how much to send them my bare heads with new everything, and for send them back clean, with new unleaded seats, and rebuilt ready to install.

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Sorry - no photos.

First day back in work today after my holiday so missed spending time with the bug.

Couple of fortunate moments today though - whilst looking for something in one of the workshop cupboards in work, I came accross all manner of convenient items.

Firstly was a collection of honing and de-glazing tools! One of the techs who is our most experienced engine builder said that he'd happily de-glaze my cylinder bores tomorrow lunch time if I take them in - Result!

Secondly was a nice big pot of Curil K2 engine case sealant which I'm sure I can find some use for, along with valve lapping paste, sticks etc, etc. Good to know it's there 'just in case'.... :)

Thirdly, I found a proper internal mic/dial/bore measuring gauge which I was allowed to borrow for the night. This gave me a great opportuninty to satisfy my need to be ultra anal, fastidious, cautious and generally pedantic to my hearts content, oh and also to do far more precise measurements of my cylinder bores

Long and short of it is that my cylinders are in really good shape and well within tolerence. The pistons are a bugger to measure properly though as they are tapered towards the crown making it very difficult to get meaningful measurements for roundness. They're not round and have deafinately worn ever so slightly oval closest to the wrist pins, but are perfectly round at the crown and almost perfect at the skirt.

Generally though, I'd have to be building a brand new race engine to be getting worried about the fractions we're talking about, and I imagine that the vast majority of motors out there are similar or worse, so I'm definately going to re-use the B/P's.

Spoke to BLR engineering who want an awful lot of money for new guides and seats which would have cost way over £600 plus cleaning them etc which I feel is too much.

I tired to call LR engineering on the number posted but this number is not recognised. Dios anyone have a working number for LR Engineering and I'll call them tomorrow.

Also, can you buy 30hp unleaded valve seats off the shelf? Can't find valve seats listed anywhere, unleaded or otherwise...

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With the exhaust valves being replaced either way, I cleaned up the inlet valves, but some are too far gone to consider reusing them.







That is the worst one.

I have sourced some NOS genuine VW valves, but still need to find a pair of inlet valves. If anyone has any genuine VW NOS inlet valves, please get in touch.

If I can't find another two inlet valves, I'll re-use the two best ones that I have which are pretty much perfect anyway, but it;d be good to find another couple of NOS ones if I can...?

As far as the rest of the heads are concerned, I've had a quote for £300 to soda blast the heads clean, insert new unleaded seats and install K-line inserts in all the guides along with lapping in the new seats the the valves. I thought this was quite reasonable and will be the option I'll probably go for. The company in question said that due to the high interference fit of the guides in the head, on older heads damage can sometimes occur when removing the old guides, hence the suggestion of K liners which makes sense to me.

I've now had the cylinders de-glazed at work too, so that's another job out of the way.

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Sorry for the lack of updates recently. I had a week off work that allowed me a few hours each day to make progress, but I'm back at work again now so it's just a snatched few hours here and there whilst I try and juggle 60 hour weeks, family, husband and dad duties...

I haven't been idle though - every night I've managed an hour or so before bed time which has mainly been sorting and cleaning and preparing for the build up.

Spent a bit of time on the heads which has resulted in a slightly different plan now I've had time to properly asses them under all the crud.

In line with the whole original / NOS idea, and as my new valves are all NOS, there's no point fitting unleaded seats as the valves will just burn through first anyway, so I'll probably just use an additive for the little use it'll get.

Whilst most of the heads are now clean save for a few nooks and crannies, the combustion chambers were still caked in carbon and no amount of chemicals, including celly thinners, brake cleaner, acetone etc would touch it, so I bought one of those small nylon brush attachments for my drill which removed it all nicely without damaging the alluminium.

It also did a great job of cleaning up the crusty ports and valve seats. A really excellent tool.

Now the valve seats are clean, I can have good close up look at them which on initial inspection, they actually seem very serviceable.

Whether they need re-cutting or not I don't yet know, but I'll try and 'lap in' a new valve and do a leak test with some parafin. If I can't get it to seal, I'll re-cut them.

I've also decided not to K-line the valve guides, and have bought a new set of both guides, and springs to be on the safe side as I'm convinced the ones held compressed for 17 years will be long past their best.

I plan to do the guide job myself and will post pictures of all my crazy techniques, ovens, liquid nitrogen, freezers, home made drifts etc when the time comes.

I've been a busy boy ordering parts too, and must say that I've had great service from Heritage and Status with very quick delivery and correct parts, first time.

It's all the fiddly stuff that you dont think about that adds up. I got a genuine blue VW rear main seal which is a nice item, plus all the other crap like a flywheel locking tool, clutch alignment tool, new piston rings etc.

Some of the stuff is a little tricker to get in original format and Karmann Konnection have been a big help here... for example, they have located me an original gasket that goes between the generator pedestal and the generator which I can't find in the UK easily.

Most importantly though is that I now have everything I need to build up the bottom end and close the case. So, on my next weekend off, sometime in September.... :rolleyes: .... I'll do a final wash and toothbrush clean, then build up and close the case which will be a nice stage, and I'll work on the heads with a snatched hour when I can in the mean time.

Sorry that there aren't any pics, but a picture of me holding a drill in a cylinder head is too dull - even for me, but rest assured, as soon as all the ingredients are together, I'll have a photo fest of the build up.

Lastly, one concession to originality I am making is the exhaust studs. I carefully removed the crusty and expired originals (without shearing them I might add, thanks to my favourite plusgas) and will replace them with A2 stainless items, nuts and washers. Someone one day in the far away future will thank me I'm sure!

Ta ta for now....

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Whilst my wife was baking my son's 3rd Birthday cake, I found myself drawn in by the invisible yet powerful gravitational field coming from my garage....

We really know how to party a Saturday night away at our house!

Took the camera this time too!

Decided I wanted to see if I could remove the valve guides without destroying the world as we know it.

I've had that many horror stories about cracking the heads, destroying the holes in the head that the guides sit in, failing completely, rounding the ends of the guides etc, etc. so I was determined to learn from others mistakes and experience.

Firstly, after just an initial clean, the heads are starting to look a little more like the real thing, although there's still a long way to go to get them up to scratch.





Next up, I tapped a M8 x 1.25 thread in the rocker box side of the guides - about up to the point where the guide enters the head.







Another reason for cleaning the heads first was to allow me to do this.... without making the entire house smell like cylinder head casserole. 30mins at 100 degrees C, on a flat surface just in case.





With the head nice and hot, I inserted an old exhaust stud which has the same thread into the valve guide.





This is the bit I had to work quickly.... I bought some of that liquid nitrogen type stuff that plumbers use which squirts out of a thin straw and freezes stuff down to minus lots and lots very quickly.





Didn't have time to take pics of me squirting it in, but needless to say, a 5 second squirt down the guide (making sure you don't splash any on the hot head) got it plenty cold, shrinking it temporarily away from the hot and expandd head).

Whilst it was cold I quickly put a close fitting punch through the guide to hit against the end of the exhaust stud.





I made sure that the head was supported on a semi soft surface to help reduce the chance of inducing cracks. One fairly hard tap breaks the initial grip between the head and guide, followed by about 10-12 gentle taps which had it out no trouble at all.


Here is one halfway out





The beauty of hitting the bolt rather than the guide is that it actually stretches the guide a fraction and therefore reduces it's diameter a tiny amount to help it break free, which along with the thermal difference made the removal process far easier than expected.

Here is an old one next to a new one. Notice that there is no gauling or damage to the surface of the old one as it came out, and also notice the slim shoulder on the new one to take the guess work out of how far to insert them.





With the guides out of the way it will make cleaning the ports much easier. With the combustion chamber a little cleaner, but not yet perfect, I was releived to see how servicable the seats are under all the crud. These will be retained and re-cut if a trial lap won't seal them.





The plan to get the new ones in will be to heat the head to 150 degrees C for 30 mins and leave the guides in the freezer over night.
Just before I insert them, I'll give them a quick grease and then a final good squirt of the liquid nitrogen to really shrink them down which, fingers crossed, should see them in without too much swearing.... I'll machine on a lathe a shouldered brass drift that fits snugly and deeply inside the guide and fits up squarely to the end of the guide to stop the end of the giude rounding and also to help get them in square on the initial few mm where they are tapered.

As for the guides, Karmann Konnection supplied the new ones which I must say a lovely items. They are perfectly reamed inside, and a new valve fits in perfectly with just the right amount of clearance. This also highlighted how worn the old one were.

That is all for now.

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Good work as usual .I personally drill the guides with an 8.5 drill 3/4 of the way down to collapse the sides (using a pillar drill) and then use a drift to push them out .I always clean the hole with a reamer just to remove any debris .I found that the holes for the guides vary in size and are sometimes out of round probably due to heat or the tight interferance fit of the guides .I have also found that aftermarket guides measure around 10.04- 10.06 but the originals are around 10.1mm .Doesnt sound a lot but it makes a huge differance when there in.All i am saying is its worth checking before you fit and some rebuilders make there own guides for this reason.

Mike.