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pre67vw
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13 years ago
Just been sent a new book called 'Josef Ganz, the Jewish engineer behind Hitler's Volkswagen'. Looks like an interesting read... "all the stunning facts the Nazis didn't want the world to know"

I'm sceptical, lots of engineers seemed to be doing similar things in those times - so I can't help thinking that by latching onto the VW story, more books will be sold - but we'll see.  UploadedFile0.jpg You have insufficient rights to see the content.
Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW
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pre67vw
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13 years ago
So I'm halfway through this book now... it is pretty incredible reading, Josef Ganz appeared to be championing many things long before Porsche or Tatra picked up on them - rear engine, backbone chassis, swing axles in a cheap 'peoples car'.

It also appears that Tatra played dirty in acquiring various patents for these things, I wonder if these were later the source of the VW court case? fascinating stuff though!

This is the Ganz 'Standard Superior' from 1934 (based on 1933 chassis). Backbone chassis, swing axle suspension, engine mounted in the back, but just in front of the rear wheels - so technically mid-engine.

UserPostedImage

Although this car was built on principals Ganz worked on with an earlier car, called the Maikäfer - this didn't look anything like a Beetle really, but again - backbone chassis, swing axles and rear engine,in 1931. Which in turn was based on work he had done on the Ardie-Ganz car in 1930... again - backbone chassis, swing axles and rear engine.



Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW
pre67vw
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13 years ago
Finished the book this morning, fascinating story really - some real insight into the engineers of that period in Germany along with Tatra's links with the Gestapo, the persecution of several very clever but Jewish engineers.

I would say that if you have an interest in the development of the Beetle in the 30s then this really is essential reading. The book does however play down Porsche's own work on the small car that he did for Zundapp and NSU, instead making Porsche out to have experience with race cars and that he just used Ganz's designs for the VW.

The book also explains a little about the court case between Tatra and VW, all very interesting - and maybe if Ganz had been in better health at this time then VW would not have had to have paid Tatra at all.

To sum it up, without ruining the book for anyone, Heinrich Nordhoff seems to have said it best:

"many young engineers, particularly in Germany, took up the challenge, and they were spurred on by Josef Ganz, the editor of a magazine called Motor-Kritik'

Nordhoff was also trying to set Ganz up with a VW pension, obviously recognition of his part in the whole story. I'm sure that if Ganz had not been Jewish then his part in the making of a 'people's car' would be widely known and maybe more significant, which is a bit of a shame really.
Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW
ascort
13 years ago
Wow - thanks for that. What a fascinating story.

I just found this web site which adds a little more detail and makes the book even more desirable.

https://www.ganz-volkswagen.org/Ganz_biography.htm 

Interesting that he finished his days in Australia and worked for General Motors. Not quite an engineering masterpiece or ground breaking design there.
Mark - Owner of 2 under restoration Australian coachbuilt Ascorts.
pre67vw
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13 years ago



Interesting that he finished his days in Australia and worked for General Motors. Not quite an engineering masterpiece or ground breaking design there.

ascort wrote:



Yep, quite a sad end really. No money, bad health and no way of getting back to Europe to see any of his remaining family or friends.
Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW
Rod_vw
13 years ago
The English version of this book should be available from us here in the UK by the end of next week (16th December 2011) fingers crossed.

Rod
Rattletrap
13 years ago
Ganz has been known of among Tatra circles a long time.

Tatra was infact experimenting with tubular backbone chassis with swing-axle concept as far back as 1920. Indeed, they introduced and used it in numbers during 1923, first on their small trucks.:wink:

If something inaccurate or incorrect is published in books or posted onto the internet, there is a danger that it can become written into history and thus accepted as being correct.
Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d
http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
pre67vw
  • pre67vw
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13 years ago


If something inaccurate or incorrect is published in books or posted onto the internet, there is a danger that it can become written into history and thus accepted as being correct.

Rattletrap wrote:



Much like your own comments :wink:

The Ganz book does include a lot of references to back up all the claims, it's worth a read...
Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW
GKL 7
13 years ago



If something inaccurate or incorrect is published in books or posted onto the internet, there is a danger that it can become written into history and thus accepted as being correct.

Rattletrap wrote:




How Ironic.
Mike Peckham
13 years ago



If something inaccurate or incorrect is published in books or posted onto the internet, there is a danger that it can become written into history and thus accepted as being correct.

Rattletrap wrote:



oooooooooooohhhhhhhhh... must resist, must resist, must resist...
July 1957 UK supplied RHD Oval. 1972 World Champion Beetle. 1978 UK supplied RHD 1303LS Cabriolet. 1973 UK supplied RHD 1303s.
GKL 7
13 years ago

oooooooooooohhhhhhhhh... must resist, must resist, must resist...

Mike Peckham wrote:





:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Couldn't
Rattletrap
13 years ago

Yep, quite a sad end really. No money, bad health and no way of getting back to Europe to see any of his remaining family or friends.

pre67vw wrote:


Not so good for Tatra's genius Hans Ledwinka, either.

The Germans not only stole his ideas for use on the Volkswagen, but after the Second World War, the Commies accused him of collaboration with the German occupation forces and jailed him for five years in Czechoslovakia.:(
Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d
http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
Ivan
13 years ago
Brilliant book - a must read!
Rattletrap
13 years ago


I can't help thinking that by latching onto the VW story, more books will be sold - but we'll see.

pre67vw wrote:



I'd like to think that you remain a little bit sceptical Rob.:mellow:

I think that this point is proved by Wikipedia.

Look on there at the entry for Ganz, mention is made of his work and that of Porsche. No direct reference is made about the VW Beetle, until near the end when Schilperoord, the author of the Josef Ganz book is mentioned with regard to his book. You see, he's got his name on Wikipedia by writing about the Beetle history.

Contrast that Wikipedia entry with that of Tatra's Hans Ledwinka. Direct association is made with Ledwinka's and Porshe's work, namely the Beetle, and the plundering of the Tatra T97 for its design. There is no author to make a name for himself by jumping on the Beetle bandwagon, because there's no author, no-one has written it.

This is history as it has been since before the war and known as such for many, many years.:wink:
Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d
http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
pre67vw
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13 years ago

I'd like to think that you remain a little bit sceptical Rob.:mellow:

I think that this point is proved by Wikipedia.

Look on there at the entry for Ganz, mention is made of his work and that of Porsche. No direct reference is made about the VW Beetle, until near the end when Schilperoord, the author of the Josef Ganz book is mentioned with regard to his book. You see, he's got his name on Wikipedia by writing about the Beetle history.

Contrast that Wikipedia entry with that of Tatra's Hans Ledwinka. Direct association is made with Ledwinka's and Porshe's work, namely the Beetle, and the plundering of the Tatra T97 for its design. There is no author to make a name for himself by jumping on the Beetle bandwagon, because there's no author, no-one has written it.

This is history as it has been since before the war and known as such for many, many years.:wink:

Rattletrap wrote:



I think you need to read the book before you can comment any further.

Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW
merchantrader
13 years ago
Wikipedia cannot be relied on. Virtually anyone can write/amend articles, I know I have done,I tried to be accurate and unbiased but who knows.
GKL 7
13 years ago
You can't quote from Wikipedia and expect everyone to take it as gospel.
Wikipedia is renowned for it's inaccuracies.
Rattletrap
13 years ago

You can't quote from Wikipedia and expect everyone to take it as gospel.
Wikipedia is renowned for it's inaccuracies.

GKL 7 wrote:


Well they've been watching the same 'reality show' as me, that's all I can say.8)
Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d
http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
Rattletrap
13 years ago
I knew I'd seen that front before…:shock:

UserPostedImage

Here is the 1931 Tatra T57…:d

 Tatra 57 (1931).jpg You have insufficient rights to see the content.
Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d
http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
GKL 7
13 years ago

Well they've been watching the same 'reality show' as me, that's all I can say.8)

Rattletrap wrote:





Don't do reality shows,they're for CHAVS :rofl:


See what you mean about the pictures 'tho.
That Joseph Ganz design of 1934 could be said to have a lot of beetle in it.And i'm not talking the front end.
 rsz_standard_superior_brochure_1934.jpg You have insufficient rights to see the content.
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