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Last Triumph
14 years ago
Shame, as it's only done 36k miles.

The compression tester is borrowed from work (I work for a main dealership) and is known to be working, plus it registered on one of the cylinders.

I don't think it would do any harm to pull the rocker covers off with everything in situ' which may reveal the problem straight away, maybe not - then I can plan a course of action.

I'm not averse to a rebuild - and would probably have done this at some point anyway in the future. This doesn't disturb it's originality as long as the block is ok.

We'll see - all part of the hobby! :lol:
I can supply...
25/36hp Crank-Flywheel shims - 3 sizes
NOS king pin thrust & fibre washers - all sizes
Cloth braided nitrile fuel hose safe for modern fuels
PM me for details...
opl505e
14 years ago
The block should be fine, can anyone else comment of if they think the oil galleries would potentially be crudded up, I mention this as my 1600 seized solid on the thrust bearing due to an oil starvation.

Also the oil cooler may be all full of thick goo

kind regards

matt


EDIT

Im thinking previous owner bought a full gasket set so maybe it was layed off due to sticking valves, if you do take the engine out you will be in your preserving not replacing element, just so long as you keep the photos comming, deal? :wink:


Also something weird is going on on ebay as I have never seen so many 30hp engines for sale before, have a look there are loads, not for you but maybe good for spares
Ivan
14 years ago
On the subject of the awareness of drivers following you in your vintage VW - I can speak from experience here - the worst thing that has EVER happened to me whilst driving a Vintage VW was in the same Oval on my daily commute. I was coming up to Junction 8/Reigate of the M25 heading from Junction 10. Now this was in February and anyone who is familiar with this area will be able to confirm it is notorious for mist and fog. The morning in question it was foggy. When I got to Junction 8 there was a queue that went all the way up the slip road and backed up onto the inside lane. I was the last car in the queue and the tiny rear lights and left hand semaphore were obviously not enough for a driver of the articulated lorry to see until the last minute... The sound of a lorry coming towards me locked up a skidding is something I ever want to hear again - I was totally powerless - and all I could see was an Oval window full of lorry! He was able to skid round me and was still locked up as he passed me.
I have never been so frightened in my life!
Standard split
14 years ago
My most frightening experience was a car hurtling towards me on my bicycle as it rat-runned across the main road that I was cycling along, the fractions of a second measured more like minutes as it approached.

My biggest shock was after the b*stard had ploughed through sending me flying one way and the bike the other, followed by my fastest journey in London – by ambulance.

Maybe the best answer to all this car safety stuff is to ban the lot :evil:

 Cyclist murderer.jpg You have insufficient rights to see the content.
Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d
http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
Last Triumph
14 years ago

The block should be fine, can anyone else comment of if they think the oil galleries would potentially be crudded up, I mention this as my 1600 seized solid on the thrust bearing due to an oil starvation.

Also the oil cooler may be all full of thick goo

kind regards

matt


EDIT

Im thinking previous owner bought a full gasket set so maybe it was layed off due to sticking valves, if you do take the engine out you will be in your preserving not replacing element, just so long as you keep the photos comming, deal? :wink:


Also something weird is going on on ebay as I have never seen so many 30hp engines for sale before, have a look there are loads, not for you but maybe good for spares

opl505e wrote:



The car came with boxes and boxes of spares, mainly NOS / OEM stuff - all part of a collection, the gasket set was just one of many items bought to secure it;s long term future should parts become difficult to find.

Given that the engine is low mileage and has evidence of much quality maintanence, the oil was last changed only 500 miles ago (in 1981) and that it turns over smoothly, has good oil pressure, was running when it was stored and that all the cylinders have a similar issue, I'm convinced that the engine is generically sound and just suffering from being stood.

Looking at it logically, it can only be either gummed up rings or stuck / poorly seated valves.

If I put a little redex or diesel etc down each plug hole and try a compression test again, if it is the rings (which I doubt) it will give me a better reading as the fluid forms a temporary seal against the bores. If it is no different, it is the valves being a little stuck.

The previous owner tells me that it was turned over by hand periodically over the years, so what might have happened is that things have dried/crusted up slowly over time until one day, when it was turned over, the valves just stayed partially open or didn't seat fully.

Either way, a good turn over with a healthy dose of redex won't do any harm at all, and whilst that is soaking through the rings, I'll pull the rocker covers off and see what's what with a large can of plusgas at the ready...

You never know, it might not need much to revive it, or at least to get it to the point where I have 'some' compression, or enough at leat to get it running. If this is the case, the situation can only improve with more running/flushing. I only ant to get it running to the point where I can MOT and register it, then over the winter can go into much more detail both cosmetically and mechanically.
I can supply...
25/36hp Crank-Flywheel shims - 3 sizes
NOS king pin thrust & fibre washers - all sizes
Cloth braided nitrile fuel hose safe for modern fuels
PM me for details...
opl505e
14 years ago
I totally agree with you that is may just free off.

If however the valves are stuck is it (I don't know) possible that the pistons will hit the valves.

If the valve seating is crudded up can it just clear itself.

The least invasive option would be

- Rocker covers off

- Rockers taken off (2 nuts)

- push rods out (number each one and orientation) Pushrods thoroughly cleaned, blown out and fresh oil replacing down the pushrod.

- Examine the valve and springs to see that all the valves are level, if they are not level without rockers on then the valves are sticking.

If the engine has never been out it may have valve guide rubbers on behind the springs.

Plusgas the valve guides with rockers and pushrods on may get more movement.

Fill the spark plug holes with diesel or redex, soak for a few days and then turn over engine by hand (exhaust off and heat exchanges off so they don't get diesel in them)

I would'nt trust oil from 81 bad year 🙂 :):lol:




GKL 7
14 years ago

I totally agree with you that is may just free off.

If however the valves are stuck is it (I don't know) possible that the pistons will hit the valves.

If the valve seating is crudded up can it just clear itself.

The least invasive option would be

- Rocker covers off

- Rockers taken off (2 nuts)

- push rods out (number each one and orientation) Pushrods thoroughly cleaned, blown out and fresh oil replacing down the pushrod.

- Examine the valve and springs to see that all the valves are level, if they are not level without rockers on then the valves are sticking.

If the engine has never been out it may have valve guide rubbers on behind the springs.

Plusgas the valve guides with rockers and pushrods on may get more movement.

Fill the spark plug holes with diesel or redex, soak for a few days and then turn over engine by hand (exhaust off and heat exchanges off so they don't get diesel in them)

I would'nt trust oil from 81 bad year 🙂 :):lol:




opl505e wrote:




Sound Advice
Last Triumph
14 years ago

Sound Advice

'50 Karmann wrote:



Indeed.

I'd be surprised if there had been any intererance issues. As I say, it was stored in a running condition and has only been turned over by hand a few times over the years.

Could just be gummed up rings?

I'll do as you suggest this weekend and report back.

I've got a load of new oil to put in along with NOS a strainer, gaskets etx to go in. I was only going to get it running and up to temperature on the current oil so it was hot enough to drain porperly and refill with new.

I'm not worried about filling the heater boxes or exhaust with diesel etc as the exhaust is 'retired' and the heater boxes are probably 'middle aged' too! Oh, and the car just happened to come with a perfect set of genuine vintage VW original NOS heater boxes and same pedigree exhaust - the proper one with the VW logo on the end. They were nestling under the spare windscreen and all the NOS brake components in one of the boxes... which was nice! :d
I can supply...
25/36hp Crank-Flywheel shims - 3 sizes
NOS king pin thrust & fibre washers - all sizes
Cloth braided nitrile fuel hose safe for modern fuels
PM me for details...
opl505e
14 years ago
Nice one Andrew,

Its good to know it's in such patient capable hands, any advice is a heads up so I hope it doesn't sound like a lecture 🙂 :)

Rockers off will give you a chance to dissemble them and put them back together (quite a nice job)

Just thought of it, the clutch is not stuck on is it? common on land rovers if left.


Keep the pictures comming!!
Last Triumph
14 years ago

Nice one Andrew,

Its good to know it's in such patient capable hands, any advice is a heads up so I hope it doesn't sound like a lecture 🙂 :)

Rockers off will give you a chance to dissemble them and put them back together (quite a nice job)

Just thought of it, the clutch is not stuck on is it? common on land rovers if left.


Keep the pictures comming!!

opl505e wrote:



Thankfully, the clutch is fine. Nice light action. I tested it by rocking the car backwards and forwards in gear then depressing the clutch which resulted in the engine not turning. Big relief.

Hey, I appreciate any and all comments and advice. I've been into aircooled VW's since the 80's but still consider every day a school day.

Out of interest - I don't recognise your user name yet you know my first name - do we know each other on another forum, or have we met?
I can supply...
25/36hp Crank-Flywheel shims - 3 sizes
NOS king pin thrust & fibre washers - all sizes
Cloth braided nitrile fuel hose safe for modern fuels
PM me for details...
opl505e
14 years ago
He he he he, thats funny I forgot I have a different name on here, its your partner in fanbelt crime FPR936E :)
UserPostedImage

Regards

MattUserPostedImage

Ovaltine
14 years ago
This is a great informative thread. Ive trouble viewing some of the images - or is it just me?

Its got a little heavy reading with so many posts that have no connection with the recommission of the said Oval, yes a couple are mine:!:
The way to end a good day out with your Split is with an Ovaltine!
Last Triumph
14 years ago
Upgraded to Photoucket Pro as I'd exceeded my bandwidth and...... we're back in the room!

So, moving swiftly on.....

Firstly, before I start with today's discovery, I've realised that my new hobby of collecting NOS Oval parts is not the least expensive one I could have chosen, but fun never the less.

My latest addition to the Oval will be a nice NOS set of points.

UserPostedImage

:)


Anyway - back to the compression issues. First job was to either prove or discount the option of gummed up rings, so I bought a bottle of UCL (Redex, here in the UK)... and then tried to figure a way of getting it into the cylinders without making a mess. I thought the drinking straw on the end of a syringe was a neat idea?

UserPostedImage


I'm not a Gynaecologist, but I'll take a good look at it for you!


UserPostedImage


After a good crank, I did another compression test, which made no difference to the three that were void, but there was a little more on the 'good' cylinder.... Nothing to have a party over, but a step in the right direction


UserPostedImage


Next job was to pull the rocker cover off - came off quite easily to be honest and I was quite surprised at how clean everything was in there - thought it might be a lot more gunky.


UserPostedImage


And here is the offending valve gear...


UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage


GOOD NEWS - At least I know what the problem is now. I slowly cranked the engine by hand whilst watching the rocker gear move, which is awkward to say the least and requires long arms, but very soon the problem became obvious. The exhaust valves are stuck open.

Simple as that.

So, as it'll do no harm, I absolutely drenched the exhaust valve springs in plusgas penetrating oil in the hope that a little might make it down the valve stem. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. We'll see.

I'll give this a couple of days worth of application and see if anything frees off a touch, and if not, then I'll have a look at pulling the rocker gear and off and seeing if there is a way to gently push, pull, twist or shock the valve a touch to free it off.

I have to say that I'm relieved that I've at least found the problem.
I can supply...
25/36hp Crank-Flywheel shims - 3 sizes
NOS king pin thrust & fibre washers - all sizes
Cloth braided nitrile fuel hose safe for modern fuels
PM me for details...
opl505e
14 years ago
Brilliant! Im loving the pictures. My observations are that the oil is a touch milky which I imagine it would be after 20 years, long and the short is its condensation water making it milky which could make the valves stick.

Plusgas the heads to within an inch of their lives, with the rockers off get a wooden dowel and a mallet and try gently deflecting the valves, not sure if you can get a straight hit on them.

It is a shame that there is not a tool to compress the springs in situ without pulling the engine.

Out of the box thinking Coca Cola may be an option pored into the inlet and exhaust manifolds if you have an exhaust manifold plug, this or redex would get to the valve guide that can be felt down the inlet and exhaust ports.

Redex first

Quote from internet on coke

"Yes, since Coca Cola (in it's unwatered down syrup form) is acidic enough to wash blood off pavement and even in it's normal soda state helps clean rust off steel it's definitely acidic enough to clean a coin. On a sidenote, it'll be sticky afterwards so a lil soap and water couldn't hurt too."


regards

Matt

PS I would pull the engine and then boil everything top end in daz, look like new after, then reassemble. But that is just me

A good boil got my heads from oily messes to this on my rebuild

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage
Last Triumph
14 years ago
I very well may pull the engine in the future, but in the first instance I just want to get it fired up so I can asses the overall state of play before I pull it as an unknown quantity. Also, if I can get it running initially, it will allow me to MOT / register it which I'm a little anxious to do...

I can supply...
25/36hp Crank-Flywheel shims - 3 sizes
NOS king pin thrust & fibre washers - all sizes
Cloth braided nitrile fuel hose safe for modern fuels
PM me for details...
Sunroof53
14 years ago
There is a tool that bolts to the rocker stud that enables you to remove the spring .I will post a pic tomorrow.
Standard split
14 years ago
Redex is good stuff, for sure.:beer:

Once I had managed to get the stale fuel out of (hope Rob's not reading this!) Rattletrap's system and eventually managed to get him to fire-up after years of standing unstarted in the museum, he run pretty poor. 2 cylinders not firing. I took the spark plugs out and poured Redex into the cylinders, spun the engine the left it for a week. I started Rattletrap the following weekend, he ran great (very smoky at first).8)
Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d
http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
ianmac
14 years ago
Firstly a very lovely and really superb find..

I had a 30hp motor which I aquired from someone and believe had been a low mile industrial engine. When I stripped the motor a couple of the valves were stuck, this didn't matter as the heads were going to be rebuilt. However I soaked the heads for ages and I ended up using heat, a large hammer and punch to remove the valves, I could not believe how stuck they were !

My point is I think you will struggle to free them up and it is likely that even if you do the valve seats will be corroded therefore the valves probably wont seat properly, you may find some of the pushrods may be slightly bent if it has been cranked over- they are real soft ! I think it would pay you to strip the motor- you made a nice job of the fuel pump and carb

Just my 2 cents..8)
ianmac
14 years ago
for your waxoyl question, I have heard that Ankor Wax is supposed to be the business:

https://www.morrislubricantsonline.co.uk/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=92 

anyone else tried it ??
opl505e
14 years ago
Nice advice ianmac :wink:
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