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48REME
14 years ago
I guess I'll have my little whinge for the day... I don't really post on this forum anymore partly because my specialised area of interest in vintage VWs is slightly obscure and isn't to everyone's taste and I totally understand that. However, the other reason is that whichever thread you look at now, it eventually leads to yet another war between John and George.
Even though I've had many words with John regarding his judgmental attitude to other's cars and placing personal opinions as sweeping statements, he has made a great effort recently to integrate the forum spirit.
Whether Rattletrap is an unfounded myth elevated to an exaggerated status or not, I guess we have all different opinions on the matter. However, I believe John can do what he wants with his cars, it's not our problem and it doesn't affect our personal lives. The bottom line is that he has a great collection which many would love to have and I can't help but detect a constant air of envy around that through many warmongering comments about how he should treat his cars and what he should do with them. And if he doesn't want to sell his 49, it's also his right and all personal differences arising from this shouldn't really become reading matter for the rest of us on the forum.
BTW, I actually saw the 49 in question when I came to John's in 2006 and it looked in fine shape to me, I have to say.
So if he loves his Rattletrap, let him do so but maybe on the other hand, let's hear a little less about it, as many among us are not convinced by it at all, especially since it has been plaguing the forum for as long as I can remember.:smile:
Rattletrap
14 years ago

… my specialised area of interest in vintage VWs is slightly obscure and isn't to everyone's taste and I totally understand that

48REME wrote:


I'm feeling like that recently, Nicolas. I still have your old '51 grey Standard (SSL), a credit to you, though I've toned the shine just a little, in the good old fashioned Harvey/John way. I think you'd still love it.:wink:
Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d
http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
pre67vw
  • pre67vw
  • Administration Topic Starter
14 years ago

he has made a great effort recently to integrate the forum spirit.

48REME wrote:



He has? So taking every opportunity to say something is incorrect on the VW38, slagging off Volksworld on the VW38 thread, pushing the Tatra story with no new facts and constantly mentioning Rattletrap at every opportunity is considered the forum spirit? Because if it is, I'm packing it in... :lol:


So if he loves his Rattletrap, let him do so but maybe on the other hand, let's hear a little less about it, as many among us are not convinced by it at all, especially since it has been plaguing the forum for as long as I can remember.:smile:

48REME wrote:



I agree 100%.

What I think John should do, is set up a little wordpress/blogger site for Rattletrap, on there he can post photos, stories, memories, magazine articles and it would all be unchallenged as he would be the administrator. He can push the myth to his hearts content, I'll happily link from pre67vw.com to his site, those that are interested in the car can go take a look and we wouldn't need the constant reminders here.
Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW
48REME
14 years ago

He has? So taking every opportunity to say something is incorrect on the VW38, slagging off Volksworld on the VW38 thread, pushing the Tatra story with no new facts and constantly mentioning Rattletrap at every opportunity is considered the forum spirit? Because if it is, I'm packing it in... :lol:

pre67vw wrote:



Well he has shown a bit more appreciation recently towards others' cars rather than just commenting on the level of sheen or whether a cabriolet's lines spoils the beetle shape like he used to in the past. Just trying to look on the bright side a bit, Rob!
With regards to the VW38, let's face it, it seems difficult to even question anything about it for fear of being served with a vitriolic response as if it were a criticism, something particularly apparent on the Samba thread.:smile:


GKL 7
14 years ago

it eventually leads to yet another war between John and George.

48REME wrote:




More than a slight exaggeration i think Nic.
It certainly has not entered nearly as many threads as the RT subject.
pre67vw
  • pre67vw
  • Administration Topic Starter
14 years ago

[With regards to the VW38, let's face it, it seems difficult to even question anything about it for fear of being served with a vitriolic response as if it were a criticism, something particularly apparent on the Samba thread.:smile:

48REME wrote:



I don't think this is true at all - I can't speak for theSamba, but for here this is how I feel. I'm no expert in these prototype cars, i've learned so much from the VW38 and following its story. If I was to question something it would be from a position of wanting to know why something was done, what the basis for it is - I would not do it from an accusation of it being wrong. If I was an expert and noticed something wrong, I'd try to back up my claims with some proof. I also think that if such proof was given then Christian would be open to correcting whatever it was.

The problem comes from armchair enthusiasts who claim that something is wrong because it doesn't match their car or some other sketchy reasoning, which is totally pointless unless the car you own is also a VW38... and even then there were variations. The guy who originally bought the car knew this car was special because so many things were different from even the Kdf he owns.
Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW
Rattletrap
14 years ago

OK 1998,13 years ago.
If you say you have the letter there John,i will conceed on that one,like i say 13 years ago a lot happens, and i had forgotten about that.My apologies to all here(except yourself)i'm sure after 13 years i may be forgiven etc, etc, etc…:bored:

'50 Karmann wrote:


Parts of your post were correct George. I was selling some cars. The '49 was never, and I repeat NEVER up for sale. You may have thought that you could persuade me to part with it by driving down from Wales as you knew I wanted to sell some stuff to get the Routemaster bus. And why would I ask someone living in a remote mountainous area of Wales to find me a London Routemaster bus – when I live in London where they are. It would be like asking someone in Saudi to get me a bucket of snow.:?

I did want to sell some cars, and indeed I sold one not long after your visit, and acquired a Routemaster (here in London oddly enough). This was a full-out project on a wreck I pulled from a field that kept me off the VW scene for around 5 years, not a bad thing. The bus is back in central London where it gives pleasure to thousands of tourists each year – a greater achievement over any VW, even that of the precious ( :omg: mustn't criticise it:omg: ) VW38.

You have now also admitted to the real reason for your animosity at last – that I refused to sell you the '49 – not all that I insulted your friends cr*p last summer. You say that you wouldn't want the '49 now, yet is was only a few years ago that again you tried to get it from me, using your ex-'47 as bait. I told you at the time that I preferred my '47 to the one you had.

I'd considered a deal (using the Samba) of offering the '49 in exchange for a good KdF Wagen. I since decided against such a deal, and I'd not swap it with any other VW, not even the reconstructed VW38.

The touch-up paint – so what, even modern cars can suffer paint damage that requires a touch-up. My car is over 60 years-old scrapes and things happen. I haven't aerosoled a whole panel as you make it sound, in general the car wears its 1949 paint, even today. Its not perfect and certainly wasn't when I got the one-previous owner low-mileage car. Harvey Simpson, who found this gem in Belgium will tell you that.

The letter you sent me after 'your wasted journey' shows a complete contradiction to your claims.

You wouldn't have Rattletrap as a gift, you say. Like I wouldn't take a nice tidy running split-window Beetle with bags of history if it was given to me either. There, I am a liar as you accused me.:wink:
Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d
http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
lifeintheslowlane
14 years ago

With regards to the VW38, let's face it, it seems difficult to even question anything about it for fear of being served with a vitriolic response as if it were a criticism, something particularly apparent on the Samba thread.:smile:

48REME wrote:



Can't entirely agree on this point. I think people who get attacked are those who don't choose their "turn of phrase" carefully. It leads you to think, do they question aspects of the build carelessly or maliciously?

There are some simple disarming phrases that will never get you attacked; "I'm sorry if this point has been explained before but"... or "I hope you don't mind me saying but in other pictures I've seen"...

Leading with, "That is wrong, all the other pictures show"..."I've had a good look and it seems to me"... are responses that are sure to get you attacked either here or on The Samba. The first phrases are diplomatic the second confrontational.

If there are some who can't understand the difference between the two, they'll have problems wherever they go.
John.
GKL 7
14 years ago

I don't think this is true at all - I can't speak for theSamba, but for here this is how I feel. I'm no expert in these prototype cars, i've learned so much from the VW38 and following its story. If I was to question something it would be from a position of wanting to know why something was done, what the basis for it is - I would not do it from an accusation of it being wrong. If I was an expert and noticed something wrong, I'd try to back up my claims with some proof. I also think that if such proof was given then Christian would be open to correcting whatever it was.

The problem comes from armchair enthusiasts who claim that something is wrong because it doesn't match their car or some other sketchy reasoning, which is totally pointless unless the car you own is also a VW38... and even then there were variations. The guy who originally bought the car knew this car was special because so many things were different from even the Kdf he owns.

pre67vw wrote:



100%
And what needs remembering with the knowledge and archives they have in H.O, if it can't be done correctly there,it certainly can't be done correctly elsewhere.
They have pulled all stops out to get that car right,no critism is justified.
GKL 7
14 years ago

The '49 was never, and I repeat NEVER up for sale.

Rattletrap wrote:




Is that why you then advertised it for sale at the following Peppercorn?
You had a sign in the winscreen of you car offering it for sale for £20K.
You had driven down to see Keith Lessiters finished '49.
I remember remarking about it to two other attendees,once again they both post here.I can call on them if you need me to.

pre67vw
  • pre67vw
  • Administration Topic Starter
14 years ago

The bus is back in central London where it gives pleasure to thousands of tourists each year – a greater achievement over any VW, even that of the precious ( :omg: mustn't criticise it:omg: ) VW38.

Rattletrap wrote:




Forget your crusade...you're just like everyone else, an anonymous ant in an infinite universe...get used to it.

lifeintheslowlane wrote:

Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW
Rattletrap
14 years ago

Is that why you then advertised it for sale at the following Peppercorn?
You had a sign in the winscreen of you car offering it for sale for £20K.
You had driven down to see Keith Lessiters finished '49.
I remember remarking about it to two other attendees,once again they both post here.I can call on them if you need me to.

'50 Karmann wrote:


Keith used my '49 to judge the correct paint finish to paint his '49.

Yep, you're right on that one. I did briefly have a board (not the car though) on display at that show.:oops:

However that was after you came down. I had not told you I'd sell it at anytime before.:sleep:

£20k, wow the difference 13 years makes.:shock:

Why does your letter not show this 'annoyance at wasting your time', only thanks and praise for the viewing I allowed you.:?

I've also learned a couple of things not to do here; that's make comment against the VW38 or have a disagreement with any of Rob's friends. He's not critisiced '50 Karmann's insults, threats or anything else he's done here.:x
 Pre67conditions.jpg You have insufficient rights to see the content.
Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d
http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
GKL 7
14 years ago
So for a car that was never,NEVER for sale it actually WAS.
I wrote that letter as that is the way i do things,i thank a person for their time even when they may have wasted mine.
You were pretty impressed,i see.It made you keep it for thirteen years.

Your cluthching at Straws now John.If Rob has any beef with me,he will be the first to tell me.Straight up and to the point.And i will take what he says,willingly.
Rattletrap
14 years ago

So for a car that was never,NEVER for sale it actually WAS.
I wrote that letter as that is the way i do things,i thank a person for their time even when they may have wasted mine.
You were pretty impressed,i see.It made you keep it for thirteen years.

Your cluthching at Straws now John.If Rob has any beef with me,he will be the first to tell me.Straight up and to the point.And i will take what he says,willingly.

'50 Karmann wrote:


It was never,NEVER for sale at all prior to your visit, don't twist things.

Whatever you say, your 2 page letter paints a rather different picture, George.:wink:
Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d
http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
pre67vw
  • pre67vw
  • Administration Topic Starter
14 years ago


I've also learned a couple of things not to do here; that's make comment against the VW38 or have a disagreement with any of Rob's friends. He's not critisiced '50 Karmann's insults, threats or anything else he's done here.:x

Rattletrap wrote:



Why are you so intent on commenting against the VW38 all the time? That in itself is telling. It appears not that you want to discuss details of the car and how interesting they are, just that you want to accuse them of doing something wrong without basing the accusation on any kind of proof. That, I will not allow for such an historically important VW.

I'm watching all the comments very carefully, I was hoping that this thread could be largely uncensored as it's not treading all over some other topic and it's easy for people to skip if they're not interested. Threats will not be tolerated, insults... well you're still here after throwing a few my way...

Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW
GKL 7
14 years ago

It was never,NEVER for sale at all prior to your visit, don't twist things.

Whatever you say, you 2 page letter paints a rather different picture, George.:wink:

Rattletrap wrote:




Look John,i have at no point said it is not a good car.
All i have objected to is the way you keep it.It warrants better than that.
There is actually a thread on the Samba that i never posted on to.Created by some Americans that had seen pictures of your storage,saying the same thing.
So i'm not the only person that thinks the way i do.

Do what you will with it,i'm beyond caring now.

We are all differnt.It's the way of the world.And it's a good thing.




Rattletrap
14 years ago

Why are you so intent on commenting against the VW38 all the time? That in itself is telling. It appears not that you want to discuss details of the car and how interesting they are, just that you want to accuse them of doing something wrong without basing the accusation on any kind of proof. That, I will not allow for such an historically important VW.

I'm watching all the comments very carefully, I was hoping that this thread could be largely uncensored as it's not treading all over some other topic and it's easy for people to skip if they're not interested. Threats will not be tolerated, insults... well you're still here after throwing a few my way...

pre67vw wrote:


As I've said elsewhere on the forum the VW38 is a smashing achievement. I just feel that its become a 'touchy' subject and no one must comment. I hope to see it at Lavenham, and I'll mention it no more before then.:smile:

And no insults were intended to pre67vw or the VW38.:mellow:
Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d
http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
48REME
14 years ago

Threats will not be tolerated, insults...

pre67vw wrote:



Then, with all due respect Rob, why have you allowed this '49 for sale/not for sale' saga to be aired this long, giving both parties freedom to constantly wash their dirty knickers in public, when it's basically a perfectly private matter which is of/should be of no interest or concern to anybody else? Maybe this thread can now be renamed 'personal grievances in the VW fraternity'...:(
Rattletrap
14 years ago

Look John,i have at no point said it is not a good car.
All i have objected to is the way you keep it.It warrants better than that.
There is actually a thread on the Samba that i never posted on to.Created by some Americans that had seen pictures of your storage,saying the same thing.
So i'm not the only person that thinks the way i do.

Do what you will with it,i'm beyond caring now.

We are all differnt.It's the way of the world.And it's a good thing.

'50 Karmann wrote:


Interesting and thanks, George.

Have you a link for that you could PM to me.:smile:
Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d
http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
pre67vw
  • pre67vw
  • Administration Topic Starter
14 years ago

Then, with all due respect Rob, why have you allowed this '49 for sale/not for sale' saga to be aired this long, giving both parties freedom to constantly wash their dirty knickers in public, when it's basically a perfectly private matter which is of/should be of no interest or concern to anybody else?

48REME wrote:



I was hoping that this thread could be largely uncensored as it's not treading all over some other topic and it's easy for people to skip if they're not interested.

pre67vw wrote:

Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW
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