Posted by: GKL 7 - 13 September 2009 16:06:20
'47 for sale on the Samba. Rich Oakley:wink: do you recognise the number plate. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=844905 [ATTACH]3526[/Attach]

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 13 September 2009 16:33:03
Yep, the car was exported to the US in 1980. It was a British forces serviceman car imported to the UK when new in 1947 (civilian spec I believe). It was owned by Paul Norman in Northampton in 1980 when exported to the US. Very nice car and an original 'UK' one to boot! George- buy it!

Posted by: Standard split - 14 September 2009 10:26:15
[quote=Very nice car and an original 'UK' one to boot! George- buy it![/quote] If you do buy it George, paint it semi-matt, your last '47 was way too shiny[-x

Posted by: GKL 7 - 14 September 2009 18:19:05
I'm going to have the whole shell chrome plated,just for you John.

Posted by: Standard split - 14 September 2009 19:21:31
[quote='50 Karmann]I'm going to have the whole shell chrome plated,just for you John.[/quote] :x :x :x :x :x :x :x NO SHINE :x :x :x :x :x :x :x (You're buying it then George)

Posted by: mrsherbie - 15 September 2009 13:42:26
[quote='50 Karmann]I'm going to have the whole shell chrome plated,just for you John.[/quote] Or you could stick mirror tiles all over it with no more nails instead for a similar effect? .. :shock: [url=https://motorcities.com/vehicle/04AJC462557938.html]'64 356 (unsold check price!)[/url]

Posted by: 48REME - 16 September 2009 14:48:02
[quote= If you do buy it George, paint it semi-matt, your last '47 was way too shiny[-x [/quote] Here we go again...another one of his tactless subjective comments. You forget that the proud owner of this lovely car is on this thread.

Posted by: Standard split - 16 September 2009 15:14:36
[quote=48REME] Here we go again...another one of his tactless subjective comments. You forget that the proud owner of this lovely car is on this thread.[/quote] I am aware of that. It's a fantastic car – I'd love it:beer: BUT, I would repaint it semi-matt. The 1940's was a very austere period. These cars were usually finished in a cheap non-glossy paint. Also the Standard models that followed look far better in semi-matt. Too many have been ruined being repainted in modern glossy 2-pack paint:evil: A certain sunroof Standard is far too shiny:evil:

Posted by: Standard split - 16 March 2010 19:36:28
Well, at least we know what happened to the above unfortunate '47:evil: [ATTACH]4231[/Attach]

Posted by: oval56 - 16 March 2010 21:05:47
[quote=Standard split]Well, at least we know what happened to the above unfortunate '47:evil: [/quote] looks clean and cool :wink: 8)

Posted by: RockStock - 16 March 2010 23:44:49
:shock: [url=https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=923540]TheSamba ad[/url] Some of you older guys may want to look away [url=https://www.kustomcoachwerks.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4792]The build[/url]

Posted by: kdf38 - 17 March 2010 02:26:29
Is that really the SAME car??? I would like to have bought it to put back to stock.... Mike [quote=Standard split]Well, at least we know what happened to the above unfortunate '47:evil: [/quote]

Posted by: oval56 - 17 March 2010 07:29:40
[quote=kdf38]Is that really the SAME car??? I would like to have bought it to put back to stock.... Mike [/quote] it is for sale, so buy it, sale the fuch rims and the frontaxle, put back original harness and rims and frontaxle and you have a stock car... beside, selling the fuchs should cover the cost for the right new harness and some rebuild parts for a frontaxle..... so nothing lost, nothing damaged.

Posted by: Standard split - 17 March 2010 08:56:40
[quote=kdf38]Is that really the SAME car??? I would like to have bought it to put back to stock.... Mike [/quote] Yes, it really is the same car. I really can't see that happening to such a very good 40s Beetle here in the UK, but then again…:evil: However, they've got the paint finish about right – no glossy cr*p. Someone get it back here to the UK:shock: [quote=RockStock]Some of you older guys may want to look away [/quote] The decrepit old gits know how a vintage VW looks best :twisted: Why do that to a really nice '47, when there's so much later stuff to mess with :?

Posted by: JD - 17 March 2010 09:38:37
Go on John - put your money where your mouth is and do it. Those Fuchs wheels [i]really[/i] don´t look good on that car. Probably because of the flat paint job.

Posted by: Standard split - 17 March 2010 10:33:26
[quote=JD] Go on John - put your money where your mouth is and do it. Those Fuchs wheels [i]really[/i] don´t look good on that car. Probably because of the flat paint job. [/quote] Fuchs wheels look okay on a really ratty old Beetle, not on this semi-matt jewell.:wink: I'd love to have the car and restore her dignity :o

Posted by: Standard split - 17 March 2010 14:27:24
Problem is it looks like its [b]SOLD[/b] :evil:

Posted by: 55Kab - 17 March 2010 17:04:34
[quote=Standard split]Fuchs wheels look okay on a really ratty old Beetle[/quote] :shock: Never thought I'd see a post from you with words like that in it. New sign off line George? :wink: :lol:

Posted by: 69project - 17 March 2010 18:06:08
there is some amazing cars on that thread though

Posted by: RockStock - 31 March 2010 20:04:37
[url=https://www.volkszone.com/VZi/showthread.php?t=631309]coming home[/url] looks like our boy Rich was involved. congratulations to Adam

Posted by: Si Med - 01 April 2010 01:12:15
From the above linked thread Empi76- said "it will be going back to stock at some stage, once i have recovered financially!"

Posted by: pre67vw - 01 April 2010 14:47:05
[quote=Si Med]From the above linked thread Empi76- said "it will be going back to stock at some stage, once i have recovered financially!"[/quote] Looks like Empi76 is registered here but never posts. What a great time to stop lurking and step up to post some pics! :wink:

Posted by: Robb - 01 April 2010 18:15:40
anyone see the pics after blasting? :shock: lots of welding repairs all over it. Looks to have just been filled back over :?

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 01 April 2010 18:47:40
[quote=Robb]anyone see the pics after blasting? :shock: lots of welding repairs all over it. Looks to have just been filled back over :? [/quote] Post up some pics Rob, I haven't seen those.

Posted by: 64rotbox - 01 April 2010 19:27:57
[img]https://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu71/kustomcoachwerks/pics152.jpg[/img] [img]https://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu71/kustomcoachwerks/pics156.jpg[/img] [img]https://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu71/kustomcoachwerks/pics157-1.jpg[/img] [img]https://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu71/kustomcoachwerks/pics159.jpg[/img] [img]https://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu71/kustomcoachwerks/pics160.jpg[/img] 4 days later: [img]https://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu71/kustomcoachwerks/pics039-14.jpg[/img] No mention of re-welding anything. "Freakin' amazing", apparently.

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 01 April 2010 19:28:08
[quote=Rich Oakley] Post up some pics [/quote] EDIT: Duplicates of above :beer:

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 01 April 2010 19:28:47
11 seconds in it :lol:

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 01 April 2010 19:31:33
[quote=64rotbox][img]https://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu71/kustomcoachwerks/pics152.jpg[/img] [/quote] Hmmm, bit of a loss of definition in the seams along here. And no mention of any weld repairs as said above. :shock: [img]https://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu71/kustomcoachwerks/pics042-8.jpg[/img] EDIT: Infact, in the after photo you can still see where the corner of the tank opening has been repaired. ie, has not be re-welded.

Posted by: Robb - 01 April 2010 19:56:05
yer, i dont think John Jones from KCW realised how bad it was, so just skimmed it over as it was before blasting. Nice car, but could be nicer :?

Posted by: GKL 7 - 01 April 2010 20:02:46
Who did the welding Stevie Wonder?? [ATTACH]4255[/Attach]

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 01 April 2010 20:20:32
Hmmm, Im not sure there is a lot of '47 left really. Why else would you feel the need to weld in a new door check strap, weld all round the dash, weld on the front end, and put filler (blasters left some on in this photo) round by the rear window? [img]https://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww119/VWShowsPhotos/pics159.jpg?t=1270146438[/img] My guess is they bought a later split shell and let in bits from the '47. Quite probably wrong, just cant see any other reason why it would have had all the work done.... :? Owner, if your reading this, please dont think im trying to knock your car, it looks great. :beer:

Posted by: RockStock - 01 April 2010 21:04:39
:o that's now not looking so hot is it? or do we just expect higher quality welding now? or has it had major work in the past? [url=https://www.kustomcoachwerks.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4792&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=75]KCW sandblast page[/url] [quote]What did you do with al the previous repairs it had?[/quote] [quote]I fixed what needed fixed.. I use the word needed loosely.. Like I said many pages ago while blasting.. this car is/ was a POS all scabbed together in someone's backyard..Not what I was hoping for. So welded some cracks and what not, used filler to hide their crappy work and am just gonna clean it up and put it back together to enjoy. A little make up, a new skirt and new shoes, and she will be just fine!!!! The only way to REALLY fix this car right would be to get a donor split and oval and disect it all and redo it.. I gave big bucks for this rig, hoping for something nice, and have no intention of spending my winter doing that.. I have much bigger things to take car of and finish.. it will live like it is... [/quote] [quote]I am not doing this car like a customer car.. This is my car, and I am just doing a quicky on it.. None of my cars are ever as nice as a customers.. just doesn't seem right to me to make my cars as nice, or nicer.. I just want a clean driver.. I did as little as I could to this one to make it a clean daily..[/quote] it's all up front on the KCW site, nothing hidden... & i liked what John did to his 54 barndoor deluxe fake fuchs...a 47 deserves originals

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 02 April 2010 11:20:53
That certainly is an eye-opener!!! I had kind of assumed that it would have been repaired well coming from KCW's workshop and certainly for the sort of price he was asking. I have been speaking to Adam for a while now regarding what to do with the car (original parts etc), but to see those pics from the 'blasting is a real shock and disappointment :cry:

Posted by: pre67vw - 02 April 2010 12:43:46
This is what JJ from KCW said about it... What did you do with all the previous repairs it had? [quote] I fixed what needed fixed.. I use the word needed loosely.. Like I said many pages ago while blasting.. this car is/ was a POS all scabbed together in someone's backyard..Not what I was hoping for. So welded some cracks and what not, used filler to hide their crappy work and am just gonna clean it up and put it back together to enjoy. A little make up, a new skirt and new shoes, and she will be just fine!!!! The only way to REALLY fix this car right would be to get a donor split and oval and disect it all and redo it.. I gave big bucks for this rig, hoping for something nice, and have no intention of spending my winter doing that.. I have much bigger things to take car of and finish.. it will live like it is... [/quote] Bit of a shame really, but at least he's open about it all and not trying to hide it

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 02 April 2010 14:52:57
Yeah, at least as its been blasted it's not going to deteriorate any more. I think if I were the new owner, I would be looking for a doner shell to chop up. :wink: It's not like you would be ruining a show winning paint job.

Posted by: 64rotbox - 02 April 2010 15:20:57
Just looks like average '70s welding to me. And it's heartwarming to know that there are modern day VW enthusiasts dedicated to keeping those old school values alive... [img]https://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/toont1uk/P1010742.jpg[/img] [img]https://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/toont1uk/11092009269.jpg[/img] (I'll take the '47, I think...) Oh, and as said above, it's all above board and the new owner is happy with his purchase, so that's all that matters. (Especially if the car's going to lose the comedy ride height and Magic Roundabout wheels at some point! :beer: :beer: )

Posted by: GKL 7 - 02 April 2010 17:30:28
I feel bad for the new owner,he surely didn't have this information when buying the car.

Posted by: pre67vw - 02 April 2010 18:01:13
[quote='50 Karmann]I feel bad for the new owner,he surely didn't have this information when buying the car.[/quote] It wouldn't have been hard to find though...

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 02 April 2010 21:49:04
[quote=pre67vw] It wouldn't have been hard to find though... [/quote] No, I cant see how you would have bought it unknown from the states without having a glance at that thread...? He seems happy anyway, good luck to him :beer:

Posted by: Robb - 06 April 2010 11:06:16
so not so good now eh ;) all about the eagle eyes :lol:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 06 April 2010 20:14:24
[quote=Robb] all about the eagle eyes :lol: [/quote] :?:

Posted by: Standard split - 12 April 2010 12:03:45
I've noticed that the latch striker plates are different from those on my mainly unrestored '47. One of my '47s are pictured here (sorry flash has made image a little blotchy), it is a single notch 2-screw type as my '44 was too. The ones on the '47 being discussed show the more common type of '48-55 cars, 2 notch 3-screw. The moulding recess shape looks very slightly different. Pre '48 doors, locks and hinges have subtle differences from later splits also:? [ATTACH]4296[/Attach] [ATTACH]4297[/Attach]

Posted by: Ovaltine - 21 May 2010 18:48:48
Any more known about the outcome of this split? Seems to be another rattletrap rebuild but without Rattltraps status :?

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 22 May 2010 12:18:03
[quote=Ovaltine]Any more known about the outcome of this split? Seems to be another rattletrap rebuild but without Rattltraps status :? [/quote] I haven't heard from Adam since he agreed to buy it from the US but I would guess that it is here by now. Having seen the restoration pictures afterwards, it appears that the car is part later car and part early split. Judging by the striker plate pics, the early parts of the car seem to have been taken from a '48 or later car (as John mentions above). The only other area of concern for me when I saw the finished car pictures from Adam was the front cross panel behind the spare wheel. This has been replaced at some point with a fabricated panel as it doesn't have the correct pressings. [img]https://home.btconnect.com/oakley-web/DSC09670.JPG[/img] [img]https://home.btconnect.com/oakley-web/DSC09671.JPG[/img] [img]https://home.btconnect.com/oakley-web/47xpanel.jpg[/img] If I was Adam, I think I'd just get in, drive the thing and not worry about the details! It's a great looking car.

Posted by: Ovaltine - 22 May 2010 15:23:35
Those door lock plates still dont look exactly the same as that pictured before by Standard Split on his unrestored '47:? Could it really be a later split with early parts welded in, has the chassis been altered in the same way, I understand that before 1950 the floor pans were flat. I hope to get a split at some point but find in a worry that some cars may not be authentic, ovals with split windows welded in I have heard about.

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 22 May 2010 20:14:10
[quote=Ovaltine]Those door lock plates still dont look exactly the same as that pictured before by Standard Split on his unrestored '47:? [/quote] The striker plates may be different on John's '47 to my '47, but the mountings are the same. The ones on Adam's car are (I think) late '48 onwards. During the work on the car, it was sandblasted (see earlier post on this thread) and it revealed that a lot of work had been done to the body including the 'addition' of some of the early features like the door check strap holes... [img]https://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu71/kustomcoachwerks/pics156.jpg[/img] [img]https://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu71/kustomcoachwerks/pics159.jpg[/img] I wish I'd seen these pics before Adam bought the car :(

Posted by: Standard split - 27 May 2010 16:18:03
[quote=Rich Oakley]The striker plates may be different on John's '47 to my '47, but the mountings are the same. The ones on Adam's car are (I think) late '48 onwards. During the work on the car, it was sandblasted (see earlier post on this thread) and it revealed that a lot of work had been done to the body including the 'addition' of some of the early features like the door check strap holes... I wish I'd seen these pics before Adam bought the car :( [/quote] According to what you're saying with post '48 door striker plate mountings being welded into the posts, and all the various other welding issues, this is/was an August '55 on Oval body which would of course have had the later type striker plate mountings, because the '48 on type ran until 1955. Why else would someone be welding in these parts. I find this leaving a very bad taste, and genuinely hope for the new owner that this is not the case, or that I have misunderstood your observations.

Posted by: 54 Gertie - 27 May 2010 16:39:39
[quote=Standard split] I find this leaving a very bad taste, and genuinely hope for the new owner that this is not the case, or that I have misunderstood your observations. [/quote] I think that as nothing was hidden during the restoration, online, that there is no reason to be disapointed realy. Not what I would go for really, but it looks great and there is clearly a lot of '47 steel in there. I cant see how any prospective buyer would not have looked over the restoration thread?

Posted by: Standard split - 27 May 2010 16:48:12
[quote=54 Gertie]I think that as nothing was hidden during the restoration, online, that there is no reason to be disapointed realy. Not what I would go for really, but it looks great and there is clearly a lot of '47 steel in there. [/quote] Well yes, and well, no. The owner was more than happy to place the car up for sale as a 1947 model. If this is correct, then only the rear window is '47 steel.

Posted by: RockStock - 28 May 2010 00:26:07
[quote=Standard split]only the rear window is '47 steel[/quote] & even that is glass:p !

Posted by: Standard split - 28 May 2010 10:56:12
Come on guys, I'm not making light of this – I was one of those praising this car earlier in this thread and wouldn't like to think this may have helped sway Adam's decision to go in and buy – we're not talking a mere £2k car here. On a plus side, once Adam gets the ride height and wheels corrected he has an attractive vintage Beetle that I for one would be very happy to be driving :beer:

Posted by: Ovaltine - 29 May 2010 12:11:38
This is all not good if correct. This split is shown earlier on page 1 of this thread as being a UK registered car. So all the chopping about must have been done here in UK:?:

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 31 May 2010 12:46:57
[quote=Ovaltine]This is all not good if correct. This split is shown earlier on page 1 of this thread as being a UK registered car. So all the chopping about must have been done here in UK:?: [/quote] Yes, I think so. The car was in the UK from 1947 until 1980 when it was exported to the US. I believe these repairs were probably done in the UK during the 1960s or 70s.

Posted by: Ivan - 02 June 2010 14:12:08
One can only assume that during the period the car was in the U.K. it was repaired to keep it on the road. We have to take into account the fact that during the 60's and 70's this car would have been worth very little. Ask Bob Shaill, Jim Murray, Sean Meehan, Chris Clarke or Roger Beasley and they will tell you how Splits were available for £50 to £100 and no one really cared, bar the serious VW enthusiasts. So what we would today class as the holy grail was not seen as such back then and so you wouldn't go to the extent to 'restore' the car as you would now. Take a look at the classifieds in any copy of Safer Motoring from the early 70's and you'll wish you had a time machine so you could go back and snap up all the bargains! So, if this car doesn't meet with you high and exacting standards or originality, you should perhaps take into account these facts, plus the fact that John Jones has explained what the car 'is' and that it was not 'restored' to perfection. I think this is obvious when you look at the price... To properly restore a '47 (including purchase) would be a LOT more. Equally, very few VWs of this vintage would actually be free from rot, damage or updates. Most are like Trigger's broom! If you look at the car Traugott and Christian Grundmann are currently re-creating you have to admit that they have very little of the original car - but is the most talked about car of recent times. The fact they are bringing it back is what matters, and that they will happily share it with us. My opinion, for what it is worth, is that this '47 is what it is, an early car which has survived over 60 years and will be a joy to see here in the UK. Sure it's probably had as many panels worked on as most 1972 1200 Beetles on the road today, but who really cares - it's a 1947 VW that spend most of it's life in the UK and is no coming back! I, for one, can't wait to see it!

Posted by: Standard split - 02 June 2010 14:38:00
If we are talking a car that has been repaired over many, many years, then why as indicated by Rich Oakley has it had areas placed into it, such as the door striker plate recesses, as well as repairs near the side/rear windows? This is not in the style of a botched-up much welded heap, the welding is not in the expected places, ie, where the metal would be rotten :?

Posted by: Ovaltine - 05 June 2010 11:04:42
[quote=Ivan]One can only assume that during the period the car was in the U.K. it was repaired to keep it on the road. We have to take into account the fact that during the 60's and 70's this car would have been worth very little.....My opinion, for what it is worth, is that this '47 is what it is, an early car which has survived over 60 years and will be a joy to see here in the UK. Sure it's probably had as many panels worked on as most 1972 1200 Beetles on the road today, but who really cares - it's a 1947 VW that spend most of it's life in the UK and is no coming back! I, for one, can't wait to see it! [/quote] This guy who of more concern is the Volksworld man is of course completely, or he hasn't read this thread properly or studied the pictures :roll: The debate here is that it is a shell that appears to have had earlier features including the rear window grafted in to make it as a 1947. Whyever does he think that this is a repaired '47 shell when it is obviouly not. Even the dashboard has welding around it. Rot repairs would be around the bottom body half or in the rain channels :?

Posted by: Ivan - 07 June 2010 00:53:13
[quote=Ovaltine]This guy who of more concern is the Volksworld man is of course completely, or he hasn't read this thread properly or studied the pictures :roll: The debate here is that it is a shell that appears to have had earlier features including the rear window grafted in to make it as a 1947. Whyever does he think that this is a repaired '47 shell when it is obviouly not. Even the dashboard has welding around it. Rot repairs would be around the bottom body half or in the rain channels :? [/quote] I have to admit, I had trouble working out what you were trying to say but, I am more than happy to bow down to superior knowledge. Let's make it simple... If, to quote the TV advert, you think that I 'Should have gone to Specsavers', then so be it. Everyone loves a conspiracy theory...If you feel John Jones has grafted a rear window into an Oval then I have to ask if you think he did it on a grassy knoll or in the depository? My opinion, for what it is worth is this... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=976095 Virtually £20K could buy you a same month project car (but it's already under negotiation) and... If you want some of the missing parts, they're extra. Obviously, a car of this age would only have a rot in the lower half and rain gutters... They were made of thicker metal and built to last 70 years. Weren't they? I have tried to point out the fact that ANY November '46 build car that is on the road is second only to a KdF-Wagen (IMHO) and they are not the realms of anyone bar the fortunate few, so why should we not be celebrating the fact someone in this country will have the car and we will be able to see it?! I'll stand by my opinions and, to be honest, I am happy for Adam Wise that he will be able to open his garage door and look at his early VW built at a time when the company was laying the foundations to be the world-beater we know today.

Posted by: Standard split - 07 June 2010 10:24:24
[quote=Ovaltine]This is all not good if correct. This split is shown earlier on page 1 of this thread as being a UK registered car. So all the chopping about must have been done here in UK:?: [/quote] Ivan, I don't think anyone here is saying John carried out the welding on this car [-x It has clearly been done in the UK. You are also mentioning a Nov '46 that's on the Samba but this car is a '47. However your 'second only to a KdF-Wagen' comment is so very, very true regarding any pre 1948 Beetle :beer: But you have contradicted yourself by saying in your second post (with a note of irony against Ovaltine's previous observation) 'Obviously, a car of this age would only have a rot in the lower half and rain gutters... They were made of thicker metal and built to last 70 years. Weren't they?' after previously saying 'Equally, very few VWs of this vintage would actually be free from rot…':? This is the drawback of being the ambassador of one of the main-stream Vintage Volkswagen magazines I'm afraid – you comments on a forum will be scrutinised :wink:

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 07 June 2010 10:50:54
If I was Adam, I would just get in and drive the thing. It's had some bad UK repairs many years ago and maybe in years to come, it will all be stripped down and repaired to a high standard. The repairs were definitely done pre-1980 so it looks like somebody just used the bits available to save the remains of an early car. I guess we'll never know the whole story. The vast majority of the original bolt-on parts are there which would add up to a very large sum on their own. The numbers that Adam sent me suggested that the car is a Jan '47. Looking forward to seeing it.

Posted by: Ivan - 07 June 2010 12:25:43
[quote=Standard split] you have contradicted yourself by saying in your second post (with a note of irony against Ovaltine's pervious observation) 'Obviously, a car of this age would only have a rot in the lower half and rain gutters... They were made of thicker metal and built to last 70 years. Weren't they?' after previously saying 'Equally, very few VWs of this vintage would actually be free from rot…':? This is the drawback of being the ambassador of one of the main-stream Vintage Volkswagen magazines I'm afraid – you comments on a forum will be scrutinised :wink: [/quote] Just to confirm - this was not a contradiction - it was meant as a quip. No one can say that a car of this vintage would only have rot in certain places and not in others! And I do not mean this car in particular -I mean ALL VWS! Whilst it is a fact that there are certain areas which VWs commonly rot, it is also a fact that each car is unique and depending on numerous factors such as where and how the car has been used/stored/cleaned, climate, road salt and so on and this means that they can rust in pretty much any area of the bodywork. Equally - what about accident damage - another reason for body repair/replacement work And the reference I made about 'thicker metal' is aimed at the fact at the time this car was built they were having a hard enough time just building the cars - they certainly weren't thinking they'd last over half a century! WHATEVER this car has or hasn't had in terms of bodywork, in my opinion it doesn't detract from the fact this car is still here is AMAZING. And we should celebrate this! Oh, and I stand by what I say - very few VWs of this vintage would be free from rot. If you're car has never had any welding done then you are in the minority.

Posted by: Standard split - 07 June 2010 12:42:23
[quote=Ivan] So, the fact this car is still here is AMAZING. And we should celebrate this! Oh, and I stand by what I say - very few VWs of this vintage would be free from rot. [/quote] I think the whole point here is that the car that is the subject of this thread has welding that is obviously NOT repairs to rust, or even accident damage. Round the dash, the door latch mouldings (both sides) for example. It is great that these cars exist. Your earlier comments on values during the '70s is so true. I understand that my '47 was dragged from a scrap yard for £25 in the early 1970's. I'd expect to see some 000s after that now :shock: My '47s untouched, does need some first time welding, but has less rot than most later Beetles. I don't plan on a 'restoration' though. Its the left-alone 40's Beetles which will become the holy grail VWs :beer:

Posted by: Ivan - 07 June 2010 13:15:35
[quote=Standard split]I think the whole point here is that the car that is the subject of this thread has welding that is obviously NOT repairs to rust, or even accident damage. Round the dash, the door latch mouldings (both sides) for example. It is great that these cars exist. Your earlier comments on values during the '70s is so true. I understand that my '47 was dragged from a scrap yard for £25 in the early 1970's. I'd expect to see some 000s after that now :shock: My '47s untouched, does need some first time welding, but has less rot than most later Beetles. I don't plan on a 'restoration' though. Its the left-alone 40's Beetles which will become the holy grail VWs :beer: [/quote] I can't see what need there would be for welding on a car body if it is not down to rust or accident damage - as surely if a body panel is not rusted or damaged it would not need to touched, would it? Perhaps the question we should discuss is this; If a VW has had ANY welding should it not be denounced as no longer being the car that left the factory?! If so, do not do anything to your '47 as by doing 'first time welding' will mean it is no longer 'untouched'.

Posted by: Standard split - 07 June 2010 13:20:14
[quote=Ivan]I can't see what need there would be for welding on a car body if it is not down to rust or accident damage - as surely if a body panel is not rusted or damaged it would not need to touched, would it? Perhaps the question we should discuss is this; If a VW has had ANY welding should it not be denounced as no longer being the car that left the factory?! If so, do not do anything to your '47 as by doing 'first time welding' will mean it is no longer 'untouched'. [/quote] 1) Only to make it something else:?: 2) Tatty original to my mind is better than immaculate restored. Now the VW38 is well into 'restoration' there is even less of it left than when found. Its merely an illusion now :!:

Posted by: pre67vw - 07 June 2010 13:22:25
[quote=Ivan]If so, do not do anything to your '47 as by doing 'first time welding' will mean it is no longer 'untouched'. [/quote] I think it's less about that and more about the worry of some kind of deception? It's not often that cars rust around the dash area so much that it would need that amound of welding, although crash damage would be a possibility. My opinion is that it all depends on your wallet, if you want a very original 47 then this doesn't look like the car - but if a Heb came up in this condition that I could afford I'd be all over it.

Posted by: 48REME - 07 June 2010 13:36:09
I think that as long as the main 'base' of the car is from 1947, it doesn't matter what's been done to it, it's still a 1947. There are much better ones maybe and there are also much worse ones but if this car is not a 'lie', ie a false reconstruction to pretend it's a 1947, then let's just appreciate it still is a historic 63-year old car that may have suffered and been subject to some questionable restoration work but which has still survived the test of time. It's true that if someone was to take it apart again and rebuild it properly using correct bits which wouldn't show after a beautiful paintjob then it's no different from the very accurately detailed yet very extensive reconstruction which the VW38 is currently undergoing. This, incidentally, is actually why I would have liked to see the VW38 left as found, an 'ugly' survivor full of unfortunate yet historic updates, where a few crucial 1938-only details would have still stood out. Once beautifully finished - and I have no doubt it will be painstakingly faultless in its accuracy - you won't be able to tell what's original from what's been remade. It's all debatable but I think I prefer to see the untouched historic evidence stand out, even if there are only fragments of it.

Posted by: Standard split - 07 June 2010 13:40:33
[quote=48REME] I would have liked to see the VW38 left as found, an 'ugly' survivor full of unfortunate yet historic updates, where a few crucial 1938-only details would have still stood out. Once beautifully finished - and I have no doubt it will be painstakingly faultless in its accuracy - you won't be able to tell what's original from what's been remade. It's all debatable but I think I prefer to see the untouched historic evidence stand out, even if there are only fragments of it.[/quote] Spot-on statement :beer: Restored cars hide too much and lose too much. Restored cars can also be fakes :evil: Hence my tatty and ratty but useable '47 stays as is. It will get rarer and rarer as the 'restorations' keep happening :wink:

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 07 June 2010 13:54:01
[quote=Standard split]Spot-on statement :beer: Hence my tatty and ratty but [B]useable[/B] '47 stays as is. It will get rarer and rarer as the 'restorations' keep happening :wink: [/quote] You [B]USE[/B] one of your cars??? Surely not?! :wink: :lol:

Posted by: Standard split - 07 June 2010 14:29:45
[quote=Rich Oakley]You [B]USE[/B] one of your cars??? Surely not?! :wink: :lol: [/quote] I've shown the '49 and I plan to have [i]Rattletrap[/i] on the road for [i]Lavenham[/i]:wink:

Posted by: 55Kab - 07 June 2010 16:29:19
[quote=Standard split]2) Tatty original to my mind is better than immaculate restored. Now the VW38 is well into 'restoration' there is even less of it left than when found. Its merely an illusion now :!: [/quote] It depends on your definition of tatty original. Take my car for example, it's a rare car, UK pre Aug-55 Cabrio and all that but to be quite honest it was way past the tatty original state when found and when first seen in public. Sure it may have been deemed "cool" when it first appeared but that wouldn't have lasted I'm sure. It was far more worthy of full resto than being left as it was. As a truly historic vehicle, I had sympathy with your view of the 38. Don't get me wrong, I think it's fantastic it's being restored and the HO team are carrying out a truely amazing job but given all this, a little bit of me feels that it would have been better to fully reconstuct a 38 lookalike given one already exists in the VW Museum and left this original as it was found. It's one of those debates that will run and run and never end.

Posted by: kdf38 - 09 June 2010 05:29:16
What about the "Pre 1 May 1949" [ Standards ] that look like "Pre 1948"? Here is a rough but rare 1949 with a 1947 style dash (from the factory naturally) .... [URL=https://s640.photobucket.com/albums/uu129/kdf38/1949_VW_Project/?action=view¤t=RightFrontInside.jpg][IMG]https://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu129/kdf38/1949_VW_Project/th_RightFrontInside.jpg[/IMG][/URL] click to view larger.... [quote=Standard split]Ivan, It has clearly been done in the UK. You are also mentioning a Nov '46 that's on the Samba but this car is a '47. However your 'second only to a KdF-Wagen' comment is so very, very true regarding any pre 1948 Beetle :beer: [/quote]

Posted by: Standard split - 09 June 2010 10:20:56
[quote=kdf38]What about the "Pre 1 May 1949" [ Standards ] that look like "Pre 1948"? Here is a rough but rare 1949 with a 1947 style dash (from the factory naturally) .... [/quote] For me the holy grail VWs are those with the 5 ribs below the inside rear window. They were reduced to 3 early 1948, moving further away from the KdF :o Wouldn't turn-down any '40s VW though :wink:

Posted by: Ovaltine - 09 June 2010 16:12:01
[quote=Standard split]For me the holy grail VWs are those with the 5 ribs below the inside rear window. They were reduced to 3 early 1948, moving further away from the KdF :o Wouldn't turn-down any '40s VW though :wink: [/quote] I don't think I'd turn down any 'double dash' split. Up until the Zwitter model they hadn't changed much from the kdf Wagen 8)

Posted by: Standard split - 10 June 2010 15:06:39
But when do you stop:?: The Beetle was under continuous gradual change from 1938 - 2003 :roll: I think the real cut-off point has to be the removal of the split rear window – [b][i]'A Beetle's not a hit unless the rear window is split' [/i][/b]:!: :wink: