Posted by: lee ivatt - 24 May 2006 01:18:50
Hi, I am looking to purchase a split window beetle, a 1949 is what i want although i will consider '50-'52 if price is right. All i seem to find are running or fully restored cars for sale, im finding it difficult to find any that need a full body off resto. Im a compotent (well id like to think so) welder and also quite good at paint spraying, and it is a challenge i am after. I love taking cars ready for the scrap yard and turning them into concourse beauties. the potential cars i have seen have been on ebay, but as you know prices on ebay are either stupidly over price or so good they are sold before u even hear of them. i am perpared to travel to germany, austria etc to find a car,as i think it may be my only hope!? but dont like the idea of a headless goose chase in a forign country. So if you know of anybody selling a rusty '49 old dog please let me know. [email protected] or 07796160244 Thanks for your time. Lee Ivatt. North essex.

Posted by: six-o-one - 24 May 2006 10:12:49
Hi Lee, Welcome to the forum. Owen Warlow in Kent is a good contact for the sort of split you're after. He ships cars over from Europe and can probably find you something to fit the bill. His phone number is in the attached thread. [url=https://forums.pre67vw.co.uk/viewtopic.aspx?forum=search&topic=3128]https://forums.pre67vw.co.uk/viewtopic.aspx?forum=search&topic=3128[/url] :D

Posted by: lee ivatt - 24 May 2006 22:45:24
hi yes thanks for pointing me in owens direction. i am talking to him at the mo so fingers crossed he can help. kind regards lee ivatt

Posted by: mrsherbie - 25 May 2006 00:13:46
Thinking about it, I cant remember the last time I saw a 40's beetle in very rough shape for sale? They are pretty much always restored already these days with a minimum £10k+ price tag. Whereas 50+ beetles still come up unrestored and unwelded for reasonable money ie. under £5k. I guess this just highlights the very turning point of the successful export deluxe car becoming available 49-50.

Posted by: lee ivatt - 26 May 2006 10:06:50
Yes ive found that out very quickly! I remember when i was in my mid teens when i fell in love with that split window. if only id had the money then to buy one, bet there were a few more '49's around then!!? I bought an orange 1971 1200 for £450, that was all my money gone. Still i did a lot of work to it, and it sold for £2500 when i needed something more reliable, and anyway what a first car to have!! Better than all my mates in micras,novas and fiestas and those bloody saxos.haha Anyway ive emailed Owen again (probably getting annoyed by now!) I guess he is very busy at mo, but im sure you can understand, im so close to the posibility of owning a split, its been 10ish years since i fell in love with them and im finially so close to realising my dream. Also do you know if there is some sort of beetle dead/alive database id love to find out if my old bug is still going(or not!)? And if you know anyone who wants to buy my fully restored concourse 1985 Series 1 Rs Turbo £6000 ono. 200bhp and a head turner, you sould see the look on subaru impreza drivers faces when theyre left in the rear view mirror at the lights buy a 21 year old escort! Anyway like i said im selling her, time to mellow down into a slow and low split :D

Posted by: six-o-one - 26 May 2006 10:23:11
[quote="lee ivatt"]Also do you know if there is some sort of beetle dead/alive database id love to find out if my old bug is still going(or not!)? :D [/quote] Enter the registration and make on here and you can see if it's taxed. [url=https://www.vehiclelicence.gov.uk/EvlPortalApp/application;JSESSIONID_EvlPortalApp=E26NOIlkNhLbLB4By6yr2Wz2HjpyUTcixEfzBqVctwb9OrpWErHG!1195902445!293964656?origin=vehicleEnquiryInfo_en.jsp&event=bea.portal.framework.internal.portlet.event&pageid=Vehicle+Enquiry&portletid=VehicleEnquiry&portletns=VehicleEnquiry_en&wfevent=link.next]vehicle enquiry...[/url]

Posted by: lee ivatt - 26 May 2006 10:53:16
Hi six-o-one wow, didnt know it was that easy. yes my old girl is still taxed till 05/2007 nice to know all that welding paid off!

Posted by: six-o-one - 26 May 2006 10:56:10
[quote="lee ivatt"]Time to mellow down into a slow and low split :D [/quote] Lee, Instead of restoring a rare, '49 split window beetle and lowering it, why not find one that's already been lowered? Perhaps a rat-look split which you could add you own personallity to. :D

Posted by: Andy Sparks - 26 May 2006 14:48:08
Give Volksaholics a call, (seriously) they had a advert in Volksworld last month and it said breaking a 1947, although i took this as a typo as thought it must have meant 1974. It may have been right. Theres a 47 on the samba, about £13K (not bad) will save you a lot of money finding those rare floorpans and heater channels, there a different shape on early cars (i'll probably stand corrected) Andy

Posted by: lee ivatt - 29 May 2006 19:57:43
No thanks! i specifically want a car that is not on the road and needs a full resto! as i said i can weld, spray paint and dont want to take on someone elses 'project'. Id neva spend 10-15k on a car, im more used to spending £500-£2000 and turning it into a car thats worth 5-7K. that what all the funs about. although i like the rat look thing. i prefer beautiful mile deep glossy paint although i do have a thing for matt black aswell. thanks for you comments but in no exactly what i want and i will get it!

Posted by: Rich Oakley - 02 June 2006 17:37:57
[quote="lee ivatt"]No thanks! i specifically want a car that is not on the road and needs a full resto! as i said i can weld, spray paint and dont want to take on someone elses 'project'. Id neva spend 10-15k on a car, im more used to spending £500-£2000 and turning it into a car thats worth 5-7K. that what all the funs about. although i like the rat look thing. i prefer beautiful mile deep glossy paint although i do have a thing for matt black aswell. thanks for you comments but in no exactly what i want and i will get it![/quote] You are unlikely to find a any Split project for the sort of money you're talking about. Even if you do, it will be incredibly rusty with most of the hard to find Split parts missing. Finding the correct parts to complete it will cost you an arm and a leg. If you are looking for an early Split, good luck in your quest!! There's very few of them left in the world and restoration projects (when they do come out of the woodwork), will cost you well above your budget.

Posted by: 2splits - 06 June 2006 01:53:36
[quote="Rich Oakley"][quote="lee ivatt"]No thanks! i specifically want a car that is not on the road and needs a full resto! as i said i can weld, spray paint and dont want to take on someone elses 'project'. Id neva spend 10-15k on a car, im more used to spending £500-£2000 and turning it into a car thats worth 5-7K. that what all the funs about. although i like the rat look thing. i prefer beautiful mile deep glossy paint although i do have a thing for matt black aswell. thanks for you comments but in no exactly what i want and i will get it![/quote] You are unlikely to find a any Split project for the sort of money you're talking about. Even if you do, it will be incredibly rusty with most of the hard to find Split parts missing. Finding the correct parts to complete it will cost you an arm and a leg. If you are looking for an early Split, good luck in your quest!! There's very few of them left in the world and restoration projects (when they do come out of the woodwork), will cost you well above your budget.[/quote] Exactly right. There is no way (unless you luck out) you will find a split like that, in complete condition, without tremendous rust issues, for that kind of money.

Posted by: pre67vw - 06 June 2006 10:20:25
I've seen a few split projects for that kind of money (a '51 on Kieft en klock a short while ago for £2k), of course they need huge amounts of work and have many parts missing - but I read it as thats the kind of project he wants. He can weld and paint, get it on the road with oval/60's parts and start having fun. Then start collecting correct parts (avoiding eBay's and theSamba's ridiculous prices) and pretty soon he'll have a very nice ride.

Posted by: pre67vw - 06 June 2006 17:33:44
How about this for £2400... [url=https://www.bugnet.de/markt/marktbild.pl?22447]https://www.bugnet.de/markt/marktbild.pl?22447[/url] [ATTACH]58[/Attach]

Posted by: lee ivatt - 06 June 2006 23:29:32
Cheers Rob at least someone understands what im looking for! I dont see why 2k is an unrealistic initial purchase price. and as you quite rightly say i can use oval parts and adapt later bits. its that back split window that im after not fancy bits of concourse trim that cost "an arm and leg". thanks for the info and picture on the car, i might well be tempted. and Mr Oakley, yes i do love my welder, if you had have seen my 1985 rs turbo when i bought it there was more rust than metal. I know original panels are hard/expensive to find but in my book why do that when a bit of sheet metal is just as good if not even better and looks no different when painted/waxoiled!? Any way id just like to thank everyone for their points of view, it all helps, after all if i can keep one more split from going the the scrap yard in the sky then surley that cant be bad. Please keep letting me know about splits 4 sale, i will get one.

Posted by: six-o-one - 06 June 2006 23:54:41
There's a '51 3-fold split which need a lot of work for £3K... [url=https://www.volkszone.com/VZi/showthread.php?t=267951&page=1&pp=10]Volkszone ad[/url]

Posted by: mrsherbie - 09 June 2006 10:27:04
I do appreciate your plan Lee, and yes lots of later parts can be used to get it on the road, but I found & bought my cheap body which was at the time a surprise xmas gift for someone else :x :roll: And then eventually after a saga got the car back and after much deliberation decided to do it myself for the hell of it, rather than just sell it on after all the trouble. But I have had so much enjoyment out of the work so far without ever having an engine in it! I have however changed my original plan of using later parts ( except the bonnet) But the parts are EXPENSIVE!! There is no profit in restoring beetles...at all, zero, in fact -zero! :lol: And if you cobble a car together with later parts, even oval, you will get a very low price for the finished car, because it will be a bitza. People who sell 40's beetles are generally very concerned with whats going to happen to them. It's not all about money. Thats beetles for you ! :D

Posted by: pre67vw - 09 June 2006 11:00:02
[quote="mrsherbie"] There is no profit in restoring beetles...at all, zero, in fact -zero! :lol: And if you cobble a car together with later parts, even oval, you will get a very low price for the finished car, because it will be a bitza. :D [/quote] I agree 100% The fun is in the driving, not trying to make any money...

Posted by: six-o-one - 10 June 2006 01:35:51
[quote="pre67vw"] The fun is in the driving, not trying to make any money...[/quote] I agree too but I seem to spend most of my weekends lying under a 1960 beetle! I told myself that I should stay away from 'projects' and my next purchase should be a low mileage 1970 1500 one owner beetle, then the 1958 std beetle project turned up and everything changed! :? It would be nice to have all 6 on the road one day. :shock: Some words of wisdom which I have always ignored "buy a house you can't aford to live in, and drive a car you can aford to give away"

Posted by: nev - 11 June 2006 10:16:50
Lee, this one may be worth a look! Cheers Kev https://www.volkszone.com/VZi/showthread.php?t=269324

Posted by: lee ivatt - 12 June 2006 12:14:28
Looks like a nice car. Thanks again for everyones info and ideas. I think maby i havnt been clear of my intentions. im not looking to restore a split, sell and make a profit. If/ when i get my name in the log book of one im keeping it!!!!!I also agree you'll only get out what you put in! All im concerned about is making a loss, i have friends who have spent 20k just rebuilding their engines. i just wanted to make sure buying/restoring a split wasnt going to waste my money! I have a high maintance lady as well!! dont want two!! Mrsherbie, thanks for the advice on using later panels/parts. looks like im going to have to careful what i can and cant substitute. looks like ill be talking to you lots when/if the resto beggins as i havnt a clue what is ok or an absolute no-no when it comes to sourcing bits for old beetles! Thanks again everyone. lee PS; still have concourse 1985 Rs turbo for sale £6k ono

Posted by: pre67vw - 12 June 2006 14:07:19
[quote="lee ivatt"]looks like im going to have to careful what i can and cant substitute. looks like ill be talking to you lots when/if the resto beggins as i havnt a clue what is ok or an absolute no-no when it comes to sourcing bits for old beetles![/quote] As a general rule, if its permanent (such as a repair panel) - make sure its correct. If its something that bolts on, you can change it later.

Posted by: six-o-one - 12 June 2006 14:28:51
[quote="lee ivatt"]time to mellow down into a slow and [b]low[b] split :D [/quote] And if you're going to lower it then keep the original suspension components so it can be but back to standard if you want to!

Posted by: lee ivatt - 12 June 2006 18:03:58
Yes, thank you i know that already, this is the rule ive followed with my recent Rs turbo resto, it only takes a few spanners and screwdrivers to make it standard again( and turn down the power from 200bhp hehe). What im not to sure about are the little bits like, for exapmle, switches, brakes, pedal rubbers etc all the little bits that make all the difference!!?? and only a true enthuasiast will notice. I mean would it really be detrimantal to fit an oval front beam or even an early 60's engine? Trust me im going to fit nice wheels and drop the suspension, may even fit aircon, as i like to be different, going back to my teenage angst roots i guess? I love concourse cars and "my" split will be easy to change back to original concourse. As you may have noticed my insparation has been the black beetle in my little picture, its still a nice split but it has its own look. Even things like new headliners or retrimmed seats, do they really detract from the final value if not done to OE spec'? or is it just thinks like you mention such as inner wing panels etc??

Posted by: pre67vw - 12 June 2006 18:22:46
[quote="lee ivatt"]Even things like new headliners or retrimmed seats, do they really detract from the final value if not done to OE spec'? or is it just thinks like you mention such as inner wing panels etc?? [/quote] They certainly do detract (IMO). The black car you're looking at is a good example, on eBay it only managed to get just over £4.5k which for a restoration that cost in excess of £12k is not a great return. Original colour, stock as possible (don't cut holes for A/C etc). Original style interior, keep the original beam to sell with the car if you carry on with the lowering plan. That'll give you the max value of the car if you decide to sell it.

Posted by: six-o-one - 12 June 2006 18:53:05
My views: If someone is looking for a nice, original split window beetle when your's comes up for sale and they know what is original and what is not, then they are going to price up all the rare and expensive parts they would need to find to make you car more original. Even if your car is imaculately presented, in their eyes they would need to spend lots more money to make it 'right'. So they would probably look elsewhere or try and knock your price down. If everything on the car is correct or you have a stash of bits to go with it then no problem. If the potential buyer is after the 'look' you have created then I don't think they will be too bothered by the correct year details and would still be interested in the car even if it were a later bug with early dash and rear window grafted in. That black split window beetle in your avatar has been changed soooo much that it might as well be a later beetle with some early bits added to create the 70's custom look! A lot of early resto-cal cars are restored to a very high standard and just the mechanics updated to a more modern specification. If you can do all the work yourself then I'm sure you can create a beetle with a period 'feel' without the expence of finding the right parts - but don't expect it to be worth as much to some people as a 100% correct, concourse split window beetle! :D

Posted by: lee ivatt - 13 June 2006 23:19:06
thanks pre67vw, six-o-one info was very helpful, i think im clear now on what is possible and not possible with views to orginality and concourse. And six-o-one thanks again for that post on the 49' shell, think it may be the one for me!

Posted by: pre67vw - 14 June 2006 21:18:07
[quote="six-o-one"] Some words of wisdom which I have always ignored "buy a house you can't aford to live in, and drive a car you can aford to give away" [/quote] Well I can't afford my house and my car is pretty much worthless now, so I think this advice is probably over rated...

Posted by: six-o-one - 14 June 2006 22:43:36
It came from a guy who always stretched himself to the limit to buy a property, then sold it after a year or two at a vast profit, then did the same again and again until he got into a £1.5m house when he was 40 with little or no mortgage to pay off. He then had some spare cash to buy his dream car too!

Posted by: lee ivatt - 14 June 2006 23:13:19
yeh i agree, its a nice philosphy, although if i got to that stage id struggle in choosing my favorite car, Aston Martin DB4 Zagoto? 69' GT40? 1967 Lamborgini Miura? Ferrari F40? Series 1 landrover? E-type? 1932 Lemans Bentlety? Austin Healey 3000? My list is endless, any way id be more than chuffed with a split!!! Ive just finished building my house so have no mortgage, tho the wife would dissagree that its far from finished! Do you know 50' Karmann i was very upset :cry: that he/she thought i was going to "carve up a split" although it has made me even more determind to restore one to original concourse condition!

Posted by: pre67vw - 14 June 2006 23:24:49
well he does happen to own the best vintage VW in the country and quite possibly the world (IMHO) and knows what concours is, and the pic you have chosen for your avatar doesn't show your intentions in the best light... Who is more likely to cut up a split, someone who wants one of these: [img]https://www.pre67vw.co.uk/classifieds/uploaded/large/561.jpg[/img] or someone who wants one of these: [img]https://www.pre67vw.co.uk/shows/photos/Peppercorn_2005/100_2879.jpg[/img] If you return a wreck to the road and save another split from distinction, and any mods are easily undo-able then I think thats probably a good thing. Hopefully thats the road you will follow (unless we can totally bring you to the dark side and make you 100% stock :wink: )

Posted by: lee ivatt - 14 June 2006 23:35:06
fair comment, and you right i will only do bolt on things, although the more i look at splits im loving the original stuff, i my well already be on the path to the "dark side"

Posted by: pre67vw - 14 June 2006 23:38:18
You *NEED* to get yourself to Bad Camberg next year then, no excuses. Then your transformation will be complete - feel the force luke

Posted by: lee ivatt - 14 June 2006 23:49:09
I will try to be there. may even have a split on the road if i pull my finger out. And again im getting colser to you bufftys on the dark side, at least i wont get lynched if i say original!

Posted by: six-o-one - 15 June 2006 00:23:15
If you restore a split using all the correct parts it will be an investment, especially as you plan to keep it. Original parts arn't going to get any easier to find or cheeper to buy! It may take a while longer to do it right but wouldn't it be great to win a concourse event with your restoration work - and I don't mean custom-concourse! 8) You'll gain a greater appreciation for all the subtle changes made to the little beetle over the years as you uncover what parts corect for a '49. And you'll meet some nice people as you track those parts down too!

Posted by: mrsherbie - 15 June 2006 02:19:10
'49 tailights! They're a bugger to find :lol: :lol: I'll gladly swap my tatty old beetles for your Miura anyday! :D Seriously modified early cars are guaranteed moneypits. I'm not saying that they are'nt fun of course because there's no denying that they are. They will give the builder/owner the instant glitz & glamour they obviously crave, but then when the excitement is over they sell usually for half the amount they cost to build if they're lucky. The most valuable beetles in the world in real cash terms are obviously often military period but always stock and often with provenance. I figure we all have our fun messing about with beetles, thats what vw's are great for, with such huge numbers built they are rarely, truely rare. But at the end of the road I have realised that the people who really know, the people I really admire for their knowledge and good judgement, have usually got white hair! and are all much older than me, know much more than me and they all own stock cars...

Posted by: Chris - 15 June 2006 07:15:29
Lee, Before doing any work, get somebody to give you a go in a non modified split. I promise the dark side will not let you go back ..... :wink:

Posted by: '50 Karmann - 15 June 2006 20:49:45
If you like,i'll take you out in my '47 if we are both at a show. Keep it Stock Good Hunting George.

Posted by: six-o-one - 15 June 2006 20:58:49
Now there's an offer you don't get every day! 8) [img]https://www.pre67vw.co.uk/shows/photos/Stanford_Hall_06/IMG_1650.JPG[/img]

Posted by: '50 Karmann - 15 June 2006 21:05:43
Just spotted this. Unbelievable a '43 Kdf. Americans [ATTACH]56[/Attach]

Posted by: pre67vw - 15 June 2006 21:19:18
[quote="'50 Karmann"]If you like,i'll take you out in my '47 if we are both at a show. Keep it Stock Good Hunting George. [/quote] Hey, If say I'm going to cut up a split - can I get a ride too??

Posted by: six-o-one - 15 June 2006 21:27:08
[quote="'50 Karmann"]Just spotted this. Unbelievable a '43 Kdf. Americans[/quote] I guess oval bugs are so rare over there, they just have to customise whatever they have to hand! :shock:

Posted by: pre67vw - 15 June 2006 21:30:45
This is a pretty nasty looking car too [ATTACH]57[/Attach]

Posted by: '50 Karmann - 15 June 2006 22:07:30
Yeah OK rob you can have a spin,you don't have to cut up a car to hitch a lift. I'll have to start charging

Posted by: mrsherbie - 15 June 2006 22:47:51
Front seat!! front seat!! In fact I am seriously considering roof chopping mine this very minute! Or maybe just pillarless and gutterless would be cool? Oh and dont forget the 6inch narrowed beam, so the car tips over going round corners, I always thought that would be a cool look.. :lol: The kdf. Someone was going to do it, and no offence to anyone but it was going to be an American! :lol: The orange '51maybe? is just plain funny :lol: At least its lovely and shiny orange.

Posted by: mrsherbie - 15 June 2006 22:47:59
Oops double post, overexcited too many mouse clicks! :lol:

Posted by: six-o-one - 15 June 2006 23:06:36
[quote="pre67vw"]This is a pretty nasty looking car too[/quote] Rob, I've already tried looking there too! :? :wink:

Posted by: pre67vw - 15 June 2006 23:15:00
[quote="six-o-one"][quote="pre67vw"]This is a pretty nasty looking car too[/quote] Rob, I've already tried looking there too! :? :wink: [/quote] Yep. looks like it will be on there next month.

Posted by: six-o-one - 15 June 2006 23:32:54
[quote="pre67vw"]Yep. looks like it will be on there next month. [/quote] Unless you want to subscribe for loads a $$!!

Posted by: Chris - 16 June 2006 00:02:25
George, How much for a go in the front seat of your '47 and how much for a go in the front seat of your '50 cab ? And is it extra with the roof down ? :lol: Seriously tho' Lee... I was offered a very solid '51 about 2 years ago for a very cheap price. :D It had crutch coolers, matching number etc. and I turned it down as I wanted to get my RHD oval finished.. :roll: I then drove George's '47 and instantly knew I'd made the biggest mistake of my life....Well nearly, but I'm sure you don't want to hear about that... :oops: Anyway, you wouldn't want a 5am wake up call from the 'Vintage Police' would you..... :wink: You know it makes sense.. Chris

Posted by: lee ivatt - 16 June 2006 00:32:12
Hi George/50 karmann. thanks for the offer i will take you up on it as it seems ive been offered a rather special ride and many of you guys who know heaps more than me are very jeleous. You know i was only half joking when i said i was offended, i know i get so much stick from my mates form having a Rs turbo, (though it is one of the first 1985 and totally concourse, you could eat your dinner of the underside!) thats why im selling it, it was only a project to keep me going untill i found a split. You know? looking at the pictures and having talked to a few Silver tops as Mrs Herbie/Anna calls them, and my dad for starters. i dont think i could even put aftermarket wheels on "my" split now. Well done all you people im being sucked into the blackhole world of stock OE, jus hope my hair doesnt turn white just yet! Ok so now you guys have converted me, i take it you are going to bend over backwards to help me as much as you can to find all the original parts. As i said earlier i know nothing (double negative i know) and you people probably know enough between you to make a new beetle from scratch. So keep your fingers crossed for me on getting a split, i promise i will not let you down. And again George/50karmann i will definatly take you up on your offer, is there some iniatation ceremony i have to go through now im a stock convert!!??

Posted by: Chris - 16 June 2006 00:55:39
You could start by burning the RS turbo... :wink: Welcome to the dark side.... :lol: Chris

Posted by: pre67vw - 16 June 2006 01:35:45
[quote="SDV"]You could start by burning the RS turbo... :wink: Welcome to the dark side.... :lol: Chris[/quote] Hahaha.. Or at least never mention it again... :wink:

Posted by: mrsherbie - 16 June 2006 02:41:38
I have to say and I know I will regret it but who has'nt seen a nicely restored mk1 Escort Mexico and quite fancied it. A guy in my yard has a mint Crayford Cortina and it is a great looking car too. But thats enough now as I am starting to see nasty rear lights that go from the bumper all the way up to the roof and I'm feeling nauseous and my vision is going out of Focus.. :oops: :lol:

Posted by: Chris - 16 June 2006 10:13:46
....... Then you have to buy yourself a pair of slippers, a pipe and an anorak.... :lol: and start drinking Pale Ale or Stout... :wink: Anna, There's a MKII RS2000 in the next street, and yes it looks really nice and I have a quick sideways glance as I drive past.... :shock: :roll: Chris

Posted by: six-o-one - 16 June 2006 10:29:57
[quote="mrsherbie"]A guy in my yard has a mint Crayford Cortina and it is a great looking car too. [/quote] Is that the yard they let you out to walk around for half an hour each day? :wink: