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Posted by: vintagebug - 21 May 2012 12:47:30
Just gone up on the BBC website a few minutes ago. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18146326 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Great news for the vast majority of vintage VW owners and others, but I'm sure there'll be a few who'll use the excuse "I don't need an MOT, mate" to drive their cars no matter how unroadworthy & dangerous they are :shock:

Posted by: six-o-one - 21 May 2012 12:56:20
I don't like the sound of that! When buying a classic car, a recent MOT is one way of determining that the car is road worthy. There will soon be very little difference between a running project requiring welding and a road worthy car. I wonder how many 'unfinished projects' will be hitting the streets? Buyer beware! :shock:

Posted by: vintagebug - 21 May 2012 13:08:02
[quote=six-o-one]...a recent MOT is one way of determining that the car is road worthy.[/quote] I don't agree with that, Malc. In 95% of cases, yes, a recent MOT is a good indicator that a car is in roadworthy condition (at the time that the MOT was carried out). However, "dodgy" MOTs can be had... [quote=six-o-one]There will soon be very little difference between a running project requiring welding and a road worthy car. I wonder how many 'unfinished projects' will be hitting the streets?[/quote] Well there'll be absolutely no difference. All pre-1960 cars will be deemed roadworthy as long as they can move under their own power, won't they? They could have the floorpan hanging off, leaky brakes etc but still be classed as roadworthy. I guess they could still be stopped by the police for inoperative lights and other visible defects, but it does leave it wide open for "bodged-up" cars to be driven around... [quote=six-o-one]Buyer beware! :shock: [/quote] Agreed. As always, even with a full MOT, it's buyer beware!

Posted by: vintagebug - 21 May 2012 13:08:02

[quote=six-o-one]...a recent MOT is one way of determining that the car is road worthy.[/quote] I don't agree with that, Malc. In 95% of cases, yes, a recent MOT is a good indicator that a car is in roadworthy condition (at the time that the MOT was carried out). However, "dodgy" MOTs can be had... [quote=six-o-one]There will soon be very little difference between a running project requiring welding and a road worthy car. I wonder how many 'unfinished projects' will be hitting the streets?[/quote] Well there'll be absolutely no difference. All pre-1960 cars will be deemed roadworthy as long as they can move under their own power, won't they? They could have the floorpan hanging off, leaky brakes etc but still be classed as roadworthy. I guess they could still be stopped by the police for inoperative lights and other visible defects, but it does leave it wide open for "bodged-up" cars to be driven around... [quote=six-o-one]Buyer beware! :shock: [/quote] Agreed. As always, even with a full MOT, it's buyer beware!

Posted by: pre67vw - 21 May 2012 14:48:22
Does seem a very odd move. I guess this makes imports easier though? Previously if you imported an Oval you'd have to MOT it before you got it registered, now you'll just import it and get it registered? :thumbup: Anyone got a pre '60 pan for sale? :wink:

Posted by: AW - 21 May 2012 15:02:39
I thourght there were only three types of vehicles that did not need an mot thay are cars under three year old, Crown vehicals and another set wich if you dont know what thay are then it dose not matter. Even Veteran cars have to undergo a test But it is differant to the norm. Mobile cranes used to be exempt. I suspect its just more hot air being genarated by some one. An MOT test is only relivant at the time of test. and not five minutes later on the same day. Andy W

Posted by: AW - 21 May 2012 15:02:39

I thourght there were only three types of vehicles that did not need an mot thay are cars under three year old, Crown vehicals and another set wich if you dont know what thay are then it dose not matter. Even Veteran cars have to undergo a test But it is differant to the norm. Mobile cranes used to be exempt. I suspect its just more hot air being genarated by some one. An MOT test is only relivant at the time of test. and not five minutes later on the same day. Andy W

Posted by: GKL 7 - 21 May 2012 15:05:35
[quote=six-o-one]I don't like the sound of that! When buying a classic car, a recent MOT is one way of determining that the car is road worthy. There will soon be very little difference between a running project requiring welding and a road worthy car. I wonder how many 'unfinished projects' will be hitting the streets? Buyer beware! :shock: [/quote] X2 Agree with Malc on this one. Although we may all dislike MOT time,it's still an indication your car is road worthy. We've all looked at cars at shows and wondered how the hell did he get an MOT,well now he doesn't have to.And when cash is tight,will people take a risk. Don't come crying Dave when you get taken out by a dangerous vehicle.It's not only Volkswagens that were made before 1960. The government earlier announced measurement to clamp down on modified vehicles through a more stringent MOT.So now all the modified boys need is a pre '60.Might push the prices up even more.So if you own one......hold out for more cash:thumbup:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 21 May 2012 15:05:35

[quote=six-o-one]I don't like the sound of that! When buying a classic car, a recent MOT is one way of determining that the car is road worthy. There will soon be very little difference between a running project requiring welding and a road worthy car. I wonder how many 'unfinished projects' will be hitting the streets? Buyer beware! :shock: [/quote] X2 Agree with Malc on this one. Although we may all dislike MOT time,it's still an indication your car is road worthy. We've all looked at cars at shows and wondered how the hell did he get an MOT,well now he doesn't have to.And when cash is tight,will people take a risk. Don't come crying Dave when you get taken out by a dangerous vehicle.It's not only Volkswagens that were made before 1960. The government earlier announced measurement to clamp down on modified vehicles through a more stringent MOT.So now all the modified boys need is a pre '60.Might push the prices up even more.So if you own one......hold out for more cash:thumbup:

Posted by: 64rotbox - 21 May 2012 15:34:44
A ridiculous move, IMHO...

Posted by: six-o-one - 21 May 2012 15:38:30
Didn't you need an MOT to be able to transfer a registration from an old car? If they are scrapping the MOT then any old car with an interesting plate is worth buying for the plate! And why 1960? Why not 1972 like the tax? Malc

Posted by: six-o-one - 21 May 2012 15:43:52
And another thing! Classic car insurance on pre 1960 cars is bound to escalate due to the number of dangerous vehicles on the road! I bet they ask for an engineers report! :roll:

Posted by: pre67vw - 21 May 2012 16:27:29
[quote=six-o-one]And another thing! Classic car insurance on pre 1960 cars is bound to escalate due to the number of dangerous vehicles on the road! I bet they ask for an engineers report! :roll:[/quote] or they might give discount for cars that are MOT'd (you'll still be able to MOT your pre-60 if you want to). Plus if you're selling a pre '60 you could get a quick MOT just to show the buyer that it's a good car. I don't really think it's a good idea, but I'm not sure it's going to lead to a load of dangerous cars on the road to be honest. The police will still be able to pull you over and ticket you, if anything you now won't be able to pull out an MOT as your defense. I wrote to the MP in charge of this when it was being suggested and my idea was to introduce a 'classic' MOT that pre '60 cars would go through. The test would be a cut down version of the full MOT that centered around safety. His response was basically that this was an EU directive and the UK had the choice to either opt in to it or opt out of it, there was no scope for making your own rules up, at which point I realised how little we now control our own country. This is why it's 1960 and not tied into our own historic tax date of 72.

Posted by: pre67vw - 21 May 2012 16:27:29

[quote=six-o-one]And another thing! Classic car insurance on pre 1960 cars is bound to escalate due to the number of dangerous vehicles on the road! I bet they ask for an engineers report! :roll:[/quote] or they might give discount for cars that are MOT'd (you'll still be able to MOT your pre-60 if you want to). Plus if you're selling a pre '60 you could get a quick MOT just to show the buyer that it's a good car. I don't really think it's a good idea, but I'm not sure it's going to lead to a load of dangerous cars on the road to be honest. The police will still be able to pull you over and ticket you, if anything you now won't be able to pull out an MOT as your defense. I wrote to the MP in charge of this when it was being suggested and my idea was to introduce a 'classic' MOT that pre '60 cars would go through. The test would be a cut down version of the full MOT that centered around safety. His response was basically that this was an EU directive and the UK had the choice to either opt in to it or opt out of it, there was no scope for making your own rules up, at which point I realised how little we now control our own country. This is why it's 1960 and not tied into our own historic tax date of 72.

Posted by: GKL 7 - 21 May 2012 16:37:04
[quote=pre67vw] The police will still be able to pull you over and ticket you[/quote] When Mr.C's finished,there will be very few of them left. Little bit of politics there....... [ATTACH]7334[/Attach]

Posted by: vintagebug - 21 May 2012 17:22:13
[quote=GKL 7]Don't come crying Dave when you get taken out by a dangerous vehicle.It's not only Volkswagens that were made before 1960.[/quote] Read my first post again, George :wink: "Great news for the vast majority of vintage VW owners [i]and others, but I'm sure there'll be a few who'll use the excuse "I don't need an MOT, mate" to drive their cars no matter how unroadworthy & dangerous they are [/i]"

Posted by: vintagebug - 21 May 2012 17:22:13

[quote=GKL 7]Don't come crying Dave when you get taken out by a dangerous vehicle.It's not only Volkswagens that were made before 1960.[/quote] Read my first post again, George :wink: "Great news for the vast majority of vintage VW owners [i]and others, but I'm sure there'll be a few who'll use the excuse "I don't need an MOT, mate" to drive their cars no matter how unroadworthy & dangerous they are [/i]"

Posted by: GKL 7 - 21 May 2012 19:03:45
Yes Dave, i read your first post. I read your second one aswell:p Can't believe,all over the internet this is being treated as great news. There'll be some right old sheds on the road. True about transfering of cherished numbers 'tho,don't even need a car now,just a V5:roll:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 21 May 2012 19:05:26
Yes Dave, i read your first post. I read your second one aswell:p Can't believe,all over the internet this is being treated as great news. There'll be some right old sheds on the road. True about transfering of cherished numbers 'tho,don't even need a car now,just a V5:roll:

Posted by: RoRoVw - 21 May 2012 20:02:24
[quote=pre67vw]or they might give discount for cars that are MOT'd (you'll still be able to MOT your pre-60 if you want to). Plus if you're selling a pre '60 you could get a quick MOT just to show the buyer that it's a good car. I don't really think it's a good idea, but I'm not sure it's going to lead to a load of dangerous cars on the road to be honest. The police will still be able to pull you over and ticket you, if anything you now won't be able to pull out an MOT as your defense. I wrote to the MP in charge of this when it was being suggested and my idea was to introduce a 'classic' MOT that pre '60 cars would go through. The test would be a cut down version of the full MOT that centered around safety. His response was basically that this was an EU directive and the UK had the choice to either opt in to it or opt out of it, there was no scope for making your own rules up, at which point I realised how little we now control our own country. This is why it's 1960 and not tied into our own historic tax date of 72.[/quote] When all this was first suggested I downloaded the consultation document that the Government produced. One of the points it made was that you won't be able to opt for a voluntary MoT test. Of course you may be able to pay your local testing station to put the car on the rolling road for a brake test and get him to check it over underneath, but he won't be able to issue any sort of road worthiness certificate afterwards.

Posted by: RoRoVw - 21 May 2012 20:02:24

[quote=pre67vw]or they might give discount for cars that are MOT'd (you'll still be able to MOT your pre-60 if you want to). Plus if you're selling a pre '60 you could get a quick MOT just to show the buyer that it's a good car. I don't really think it's a good idea, but I'm not sure it's going to lead to a load of dangerous cars on the road to be honest. The police will still be able to pull you over and ticket you, if anything you now won't be able to pull out an MOT as your defense. I wrote to the MP in charge of this when it was being suggested and my idea was to introduce a 'classic' MOT that pre '60 cars would go through. The test would be a cut down version of the full MOT that centered around safety. His response was basically that this was an EU directive and the UK had the choice to either opt in to it or opt out of it, there was no scope for making your own rules up, at which point I realised how little we now control our own country. This is why it's 1960 and not tied into our own historic tax date of 72.[/quote] When all this was first suggested I downloaded the consultation document that the Government produced. One of the points it made was that you won't be able to opt for a voluntary MoT test. Of course you may be able to pay your local testing station to put the car on the rolling road for a brake test and get him to check it over underneath, but he won't be able to issue any sort of road worthiness certificate afterwards.

Posted by: pre67vw - 21 May 2012 23:31:54
[quote=RoRoVw]When all this was first suggested I downloaded the consultation document that the Government produced. One of the points it made was that you won't be able to opt for a voluntary MoT test. Of course you may be able to pay your local testing station to put the car on the rolling road for a brake test and get him to check it over underneath, but he won't be able to issue any sort of road worthiness certificate afterwards.[/quote] I've read that optional mots would still be available, although granted I've not read anything official. But I'm sure there'll be ways to satisfy insurers and buyers without the classic car industry falling into chaos. So, anyone got a '50 chassis for sale?

Posted by: pre67vw - 21 May 2012 23:31:54

[quote=RoRoVw]When all this was first suggested I downloaded the consultation document that the Government produced. One of the points it made was that you won't be able to opt for a voluntary MoT test. Of course you may be able to pay your local testing station to put the car on the rolling road for a brake test and get him to check it over underneath, but he won't be able to issue any sort of road worthiness certificate afterwards.[/quote] I've read that optional mots would still be available, although granted I've not read anything official. But I'm sure there'll be ways to satisfy insurers and buyers without the classic car industry falling into chaos. So, anyone got a '50 chassis for sale?

Posted by: RoRoVw - 22 May 2012 08:35:20
[quote=pre67vw]I've read that optional mots would still be available, although granted I've not read anything official. But I'm sure there'll be ways to satisfy insurers and buyers without the classic car industry falling into chaos. So, anyone got a '50 chassis for sale?[/quote] Part of the consultation exercise involved the insurance industry so hopefully the Government will have taken their views into account. One point that stood out when I was reading the document was that throughout the Government refered to pre 1960 vehicles as being 'Historic' or of 'Historical' importance. However, as we know, for taxation purposes the DVLA consider an 'Historic' vehicle to be one built before 1973. The thought did occur to me that they might now decide to bring the two into line and say that pre 1960 vehicles are the only ones that are tax exempt and so bring vehicles built between 1960 and 1973 back into the PLG taxation category. Or am I just being suspicious of the Government's motives??

Posted by: RoRoVw - 22 May 2012 08:35:20

[quote=pre67vw]I've read that optional mots would still be available, although granted I've not read anything official. But I'm sure there'll be ways to satisfy insurers and buyers without the classic car industry falling into chaos. So, anyone got a '50 chassis for sale?[/quote] Part of the consultation exercise involved the insurance industry so hopefully the Government will have taken their views into account. One point that stood out when I was reading the document was that throughout the Government refered to pre 1960 vehicles as being 'Historic' or of 'Historical' importance. However, as we know, for taxation purposes the DVLA consider an 'Historic' vehicle to be one built before 1973. The thought did occur to me that they might now decide to bring the two into line and say that pre 1960 vehicles are the only ones that are tax exempt and so bring vehicles built between 1960 and 1973 back into the PLG taxation category. Or am I just being suspicious of the Government's motives??

Posted by: AW - 22 May 2012 09:39:45
Thats a good point RoRoVw about bringing 72 cars back to 60 for free tax its going to cost some one some were. Andy W The polo gose for test tomorrow so i will ask the tester to see what he knows about it.

Posted by: Old Blue - 22 May 2012 09:40:10
[quote=GKL 7]X2 Don't come crying Dave when you get taken out by a dangerous vehicle.It's not only Volkswagens that were made before 1960. The government earlier announced measurement to clamp down on modified vehicles through a more stringent MOT.So now all the modified boys need is a pre '60.Might push the prices up even more.So if you own one......hold out for more cash:thumbup:[/quote] The odds of being hit by a pre 1960 vehicle must be akin to a lottery win. The odds of being hit by an unroadworthy one even slimmer. Get a grip. The danger on roads is posed by modern cars (millions around), and especially the second-hand banger ones driven by cash-strapped youngsters at ridiculous speeds.

Posted by: Old Blue - 22 May 2012 09:40:10

[quote=GKL 7]X2 Don't come crying Dave when you get taken out by a dangerous vehicle.It's not only Volkswagens that were made before 1960. The government earlier announced measurement to clamp down on modified vehicles through a more stringent MOT.So now all the modified boys need is a pre '60.Might push the prices up even more.So if you own one......hold out for more cash:thumbup:[/quote] The odds of being hit by a pre 1960 vehicle must be akin to a lottery win. The odds of being hit by an unroadworthy one even slimmer. Get a grip. The danger on roads is posed by modern cars (millions around), and especially the second-hand banger ones driven by cash-strapped youngsters at ridiculous speeds.

Posted by: Old Blue - 22 May 2012 09:48:59
[quote=AW]Thats a good point RoRoVw about bringing 72 cars back to 60 for free tax its going to cost some one some were. [/quote] Read in a classic mag that 1972 is the last year to legally display the vintage black number plates instead of the damn awful yellow ones. So the vintage free tax fits in well ending pre1973. It would on the face of it seem a good idea to have the MOT exemption up to 1972, but there are more cars from the 60s and 70s than pre 60s that are very capable in modern traffic, and more likely to be used daily and not checked regularly by the owners. Also as cars get newer they become more complicated and more in need of knowledgeable maintenace or check-over.

Posted by: Old Blue - 22 May 2012 09:48:59

[quote=AW]Thats a good point RoRoVw about bringing 72 cars back to 60 for free tax its going to cost some one some were. [/quote] Read in a classic mag that 1972 is the last year to legally display the vintage black number plates instead of the damn awful yellow ones. So the vintage free tax fits in well ending pre1973. It would on the face of it seem a good idea to have the MOT exemption up to 1972, but there are more cars from the 60s and 70s than pre 60s that are very capable in modern traffic, and more likely to be used daily and not checked regularly by the owners. Also as cars get newer they become more complicated and more in need of knowledgeable maintenace or check-over.

Posted by: Old Blue - 22 May 2012 09:58:26
[quote=RoRoVw]One point that stood out when I was reading the document was that throughout the Government refered to pre 1960 vehicles as being 'Historic' or of 'Historical' importance. However, as we know, for taxation purposes the DVLA consider an 'Historic' vehicle to be one built before 1973. The thought did occur to me that they might now decide to bring the two into line and say that pre 1960 vehicles are the only ones that are tax exempt and so bring vehicles built between 1960 and 1973 back into the PLG taxation category. Or am I just being suspicious of the Government's motives??[/quote] That'll happen when Labour form the next government. They stopped the Conservative's tax exempt 25 year roll on back in 1997 when they formed government, for no reason other than car collecting is a rich person's pastime (not for most of us I know). They may even scrap the MOT and TAX exemption competely.

Posted by: Old Blue - 22 May 2012 09:58:26

[quote=RoRoVw]One point that stood out when I was reading the document was that throughout the Government refered to pre 1960 vehicles as being 'Historic' or of 'Historical' importance. However, as we know, for taxation purposes the DVLA consider an 'Historic' vehicle to be one built before 1973. The thought did occur to me that they might now decide to bring the two into line and say that pre 1960 vehicles are the only ones that are tax exempt and so bring vehicles built between 1960 and 1973 back into the PLG taxation category. Or am I just being suspicious of the Government's motives??[/quote] That'll happen when Labour form the next government. They stopped the Conservative's tax exempt 25 year roll on back in 1997 when they formed government, for no reason other than car collecting is a rich person's pastime (not for most of us I know). They may even scrap the MOT and TAX exemption competely.

Posted by: Cool Splitty - 22 May 2012 16:33:52
Well at last it has happened real old cars being exempt from the time and money wasting Mot.I am thinking of getting rid of the fleetline and getting the oval that i have always wanted or a 58 59semibug as soonas. I reckon that realy old vws are going to be worth evenmore with the no mot advantage.The guys here with a hord of 40s 50s must be smilingWe carefuly lookafter our oldmotors as dad is a trained mechnic sothe mot is awaste of our money .Why would you buy a 73 bug when you can get a 72 and not pay road tax.And now whywould you buy a 60s when you can go 40s50s and no Mot pain andcost or road tax. not good news for the 60s vw owners trying to sel We can now take any of our old cars on the roadwhen we like and insure:d

Posted by: Cool Splitty - 22 May 2012 16:33:52

Well at last it has happened real old cars being exempt from the time and money wasting Mot.I am thinking of getting rid of the fleetline and getting the oval that i have always wanted or a 58 59semibug as soonas. I reckon that realy old vws are going to be worth evenmore with the no mot advantage.The guys here with a hord of 40s 50s must be smilingWe carefuly lookafter our oldmotors as dad is a trained mechnic sothe mot is awaste of our money .Why would you buy a 73 bug when you can get a 72 and not pay road tax.And now whywould you buy a 60s when you can go 40s50s and no Mot pain andcost or road tax. not good news for the 60s vw owners trying to sel We can now take any of our old cars on the roadwhen we like and insure:d

Posted by: GKL 7 - 22 May 2012 16:53:41
[quote=Old Blue]The odds of being hit by a pre 1960 vehicle must be akin to a lottery win. The odds of being hit by an unroadworthy one even slimmer. Get a grip. The danger on roads is posed by modern cars (millions around), and especially the second-hand banger ones driven by cash-strapped youngsters at ridiculous speeds.[/quote] You really are devoid of any sense of humour aren't you Oldblue. When two blokes who have known each other for over 15 years,can't pull each others legs on a hobby based forum:thumbdn:

Posted by: GKL 7 - 22 May 2012 16:53:41

[quote=Old Blue]The odds of being hit by a pre 1960 vehicle must be akin to a lottery win. The odds of being hit by an unroadworthy one even slimmer. Get a grip. The danger on roads is posed by modern cars (millions around), and especially the second-hand banger ones driven by cash-strapped youngsters at ridiculous speeds.[/quote] You really are devoid of any sense of humour aren't you Oldblue. When two blokes who have known each other for over 15 years,can't pull each others legs on a hobby based forum:thumbdn:

Posted by: vintagebug - 22 May 2012 17:09:19
[quote=GKL 7]When two blokes who have known each other for over 15 years,can't pull each others legs on a hobby based forum:thumbdn: [/quote] Who's that then? :roll: It must be more like 20 years George? Or does it just feel that long? :d

Posted by: GKL 7 - 22 May 2012 18:41:14
:wink: See you soon Dave.

Posted by: Kev - 22 May 2012 22:33:03
Lets look on the bright side here, at least you won't have to drill your early car for window washers anymore, or you can remove them and fill the holes in :d There is nothing to stop you asking a garage to do an MOT pre test or some of the checks, such as rolling road for brakes etc. And if you are worried about being hit by a badly maintained pre 60 car then there must be more on the road where you live, they are a rare sight on the roads round here !

Posted by: Kev - 22 May 2012 22:33:03

Lets look on the bright side here, at least you won't have to drill your early car for window washers anymore, or you can remove them and fill the holes in :d There is nothing to stop you asking a garage to do an MOT pre test or some of the checks, such as rolling road for brakes etc. And if you are worried about being hit by a badly maintained pre 60 car then there must be more on the road where you live, they are a rare sight on the roads round here !

Posted by: six-o-one - 23 May 2012 09:27:56
[quote=nev]If you are worried about being hit by a badly maintained pre 60 car then there must be more on the road where you live, they are a rare sight on the roads round here ![/quote] Try saying that in a few weeks if you live in Lavenham! :wink:

Posted by: vintagebug - 23 May 2012 09:55:44
[quote=six-o-one]Try saying that in a few weeks if you live in Lavenham! :wink: [/quote] There won't be any badly-maintained pre-60 cars at Lavenham Malc, they'll all be in pristine condition!! :wink:

Posted by: Old Blue - 23 May 2012 15:31:13
[quote=Kev]Lets look on the bright side here, at least you won't have to drill your early car for window washers anymore, or you can remove them and fill the holes in :d And if you are worried about being hit by a badly maintained pre 60 car then there must be more on the road where you live, they are a rare sight on the roads round here ![/quote] As said, there's more chance of the Earth being swallowed by a black hole that being in an accident with a pre 60 vehicle. GKL7 must live in the Heartbeat village, (lucky man). Interesting with the washers. I think that it will be the owner's responsibility to keep their car road legal, so washers should be there if a policeman stops you, or you get fined.:wink:

Posted by: Old Blue - 23 May 2012 15:31:13

[quote=Kev]Lets look on the bright side here, at least you won't have to drill your early car for window washers anymore, or you can remove them and fill the holes in :d And if you are worried about being hit by a badly maintained pre 60 car then there must be more on the road where you live, they are a rare sight on the roads round here ![/quote] As said, there's more chance of the Earth being swallowed by a black hole that being in an accident with a pre 60 vehicle. GKL7 must live in the Heartbeat village, (lucky man). Interesting with the washers. I think that it will be the owner's responsibility to keep their car road legal, so washers should be there if a policeman stops you, or you get fined.:wink:

Posted by: Old Blue - 23 May 2012 15:37:33
How is a vintage car owner meant to judge when a bit of welding required is a structural safety issue or just an annoying hole:?: I'm pleased with the MOT exemption, (well Jon is with his '56,:d Old Blue's a '68:x), but there are so many unanswered issues. Like what about the pre 60 car that is heavily updated with modern running gear, brakes etc, and only a pre 60 body and part pre 60 chassis. These cars are already getting tax exemption, which seems all wrong to me.

Posted by: Old Blue - 23 May 2012 15:37:33

How is a vintage car owner meant to judge when a bit of welding required is a structural safety issue or just an annoying hole:?: I'm pleased with the MOT exemption, (well Jon is with his '56,:d Old Blue's a '68:x), but there are so many unanswered issues. Like what about the pre 60 car that is heavily updated with modern running gear, brakes etc, and only a pre 60 body and part pre 60 chassis. These cars are already getting tax exemption, which seems all wrong to me.

Posted by: harveypj - 23 May 2012 17:22:53
[quote=Old Blue]How is a vintage car owner meant to judge when a bit of welding required is a structural safety issue or just an annoying hole:?: I'm pleased with the MOT exemption, (well Jon is with his '56,:d Old Blue's a '68:x), but there are so many unanswered issues. Like what about the pre 60 car that is heavily updated with modern running gear, brakes etc, and only a pre 60 body and part pre 60 chassis. These cars are already getting tax exemption, which seems all wrong to me.[/quote] Where there's a law there's a loop hole. I guess of the 0.6% of cars on the road that we are talking about (pre 1960) only a small portion will be "upgraded / updated" so on the scale of things the Government I don't suppose are that bothered by this. It does feel weird thou .....no MOT. I'm happy that I know enough and am responsible enough to keep mine up to standard, but I can't help thinking; how 'Ratty' is 'Rat look' going to get now?

Posted by: harveypj - 23 May 2012 17:22:53

[quote=Old Blue]How is a vintage car owner meant to judge when a bit of welding required is a structural safety issue or just an annoying hole:?: I'm pleased with the MOT exemption, (well Jon is with his '56,:d Old Blue's a '68:x), but there are so many unanswered issues. Like what about the pre 60 car that is heavily updated with modern running gear, brakes etc, and only a pre 60 body and part pre 60 chassis. These cars are already getting tax exemption, which seems all wrong to me.[/quote] Where there's a law there's a loop hole. I guess of the 0.6% of cars on the road that we are talking about (pre 1960) only a small portion will be "upgraded / updated" so on the scale of things the Government I don't suppose are that bothered by this. It does feel weird thou .....no MOT. I'm happy that I know enough and am responsible enough to keep mine up to standard, but I can't help thinking; how 'Ratty' is 'Rat look' going to get now?

Posted by: Cool Splitty - 24 May 2012 16:43:39
[quote=harveypj]how 'Ratty' is 'Rat look' going to get now? [/quote] Very, hopefully. Bring it on:d

Posted by: lifeintheslowlane - 28 May 2012 09:02:24
I think Traffic Police will be briefed to pull over more ratty and potentially dangerous looking vehicles. That will probably include some of the ridiculously lowered whilst the shiny stock looking vehicles will drive on unhindered. IMO an unhindered progress on the road will depend on presentation.

Posted by: Cool Splitty - 28 May 2012 09:35:17
[quote=lifeintheslowlane]I think Traffic Police will be briefed to pull over more ratty and potentially dangerous looking vehicles. That will probably include some of the ridiculously lowered whilst the shiny stock looking vehicles will drive on unhindered. IMO an unhindered progress on the road will depend on presentation.[/quote] There are many ratlookers that have had a fullnproper chasis rebuild with new brakes n whatever.They are literally like new under the og body better than many shiney stock cars n will welcome a roadside police chek but dont like the money sucking Mot that the 1960 on lot will have to put upwith on a car you onlyuse sumer weekends:d

Posted by: Cool Splitty - 28 May 2012 09:35:17

[quote=lifeintheslowlane]I think Traffic Police will be briefed to pull over more ratty and potentially dangerous looking vehicles. That will probably include some of the ridiculously lowered whilst the shiny stock looking vehicles will drive on unhindered. IMO an unhindered progress on the road will depend on presentation.[/quote] There are many ratlookers that have had a fullnproper chasis rebuild with new brakes n whatever.They are literally like new under the og body better than many shiney stock cars n will welcome a roadside police chek but dont like the money sucking Mot that the 1960 on lot will have to put upwith on a car you onlyuse sumer weekends:d

Posted by: pre67vw - 28 May 2012 10:00:00
[quote=Cool Splitty]There are many ratlookers that have had a fullnproper chasis rebuild with new brakes n whatever.They are literally like new under the og body better than many shiney stock cars n will welcome a roadside police chek but dont like the money sucking Mot that the 1960 on lot will have to put upwith on a car you onlyuse sumer weekends:d [/quote] There are some that have had a full on rebuild underneath but a policeman can usually find something on ANY car, be it a dirty number plate or something serious, they just need a reason to stop you in the first place - a ratty looking car is going to give them an excuse. I wonder how many will skip this chassis rebuild if they don't need to impress the MOT man and run around with flintstone floorpans?

Posted by: pre67vw - 28 May 2012 10:00:00

[quote=Cool Splitty]There are many ratlookers that have had a fullnproper chasis rebuild with new brakes n whatever.They are literally like new under the og body better than many shiney stock cars n will welcome a roadside police chek but dont like the money sucking Mot that the 1960 on lot will have to put upwith on a car you onlyuse sumer weekends:d [/quote] There are some that have had a full on rebuild underneath but a policeman can usually find something on ANY car, be it a dirty number plate or something serious, they just need a reason to stop you in the first place - a ratty looking car is going to give them an excuse. I wonder how many will skip this chassis rebuild if they don't need to impress the MOT man and run around with flintstone floorpans?

Posted by: lifeintheslowlane - 28 May 2012 11:10:55
[quote=Cool Splitty]There are many ratlookers that have had a fullnproper chasis rebuild with new brakes n whatever.They are literally like new under the og body better than many shiney stock cars n will welcome a roadside police chek but dont like the money sucking Mot that the 1960 on lot will have to put upwith on a car you onlyuse sumer weekends:d [/quote] ...but IMO they will still be more likely to be pulled over. "Can you put that on full lock to the left please sir?" "...and now to the right."

Posted by: lifeintheslowlane - 28 May 2012 11:10:55

[quote=Cool Splitty]There are many ratlookers that have had a fullnproper chasis rebuild with new brakes n whatever.They are literally like new under the og body better than many shiney stock cars n will welcome a roadside police chek but dont like the money sucking Mot that the 1960 on lot will have to put upwith on a car you onlyuse sumer weekends:d [/quote] ...but IMO they will still be more likely to be pulled over. "Can you put that on full lock to the left please sir?" "...and now to the right."

Posted by: AW - 28 May 2012 14:26:10
There is a littel thing called construction and use which a lot of people over look. Many years back when i built a Buggy i got hold of a set of rules of the time so if i got a tug by the police thay could not get me on any thing (thay did try once but ended up with egg on there face) But it was intresting to note that a cirtain type of Honda at the time did not compliy with the front indicator regulations [-x . Andy W

Posted by: AW - 28 May 2012 14:26:10

There is a littel thing called construction and use which a lot of people over look. Many years back when i built a Buggy i got hold of a set of rules of the time so if i got a tug by the police thay could not get me on any thing (thay did try once but ended up with egg on there face) But it was intresting to note that a cirtain type of Honda at the time did not compliy with the front indicator regulations [-x . Andy W

Posted by: 64rotbox - 28 May 2012 16:43:47
[quote=Cool Splitty]There are many ratlookers that have had a fullnproper chasis rebuild with new brakes n whatever.They are literally like new under the og body better than many shiney stock cars etc etc [/quote] Yes, yes. We've all heard that 'fact' trotted out many, many times before. I have had the pleasure of seeing two examples, one '58 Beetle and an early '60s Split condemned when they showed up for tests at one of my local garages. Of course now, the owner of the Beetle could have just carried on driving it without addressing any of the issues (tyres rubbing on the inner arches on lock, lack of shocks, dead link pins, inefficient brakes and knackered rear bearings were part of the list, as I recall). Plus it was so stupidly low that it put a huge scrape in the ramp beds. A victory for common sense, indeed.

Posted by: 64rotbox - 28 May 2012 16:43:47

[quote=Cool Splitty]There are many ratlookers that have had a fullnproper chasis rebuild with new brakes n whatever.They are literally like new under the og body better than many shiney stock cars etc etc [/quote] Yes, yes. We've all heard that 'fact' trotted out many, many times before. I have had the pleasure of seeing two examples, one '58 Beetle and an early '60s Split condemned when they showed up for tests at one of my local garages. Of course now, the owner of the Beetle could have just carried on driving it without addressing any of the issues (tyres rubbing on the inner arches on lock, lack of shocks, dead link pins, inefficient brakes and knackered rear bearings were part of the list, as I recall). Plus it was so stupidly low that it put a huge scrape in the ramp beds. A victory for common sense, indeed.

Posted by: Cool Splitty - 30 May 2012 15:06:32
The wording i have seen is 'vehicles being mot exempt if used before 1 janary 1960'.So dont go and import acar made before 1960as it wont get exempted as it wont have been used here before 1960 and itdont say made before 1960.In ireland they have pre1980 mot exempt:o

Posted by: AW - 30 May 2012 15:16:37
I have also heard that the reg numbers of the cars will not be transferable and will be frozen on to that vehicle. Dont know how true it is its after some one had been intouch with the powers that be and thats what it is looking like. Andy W

Posted by: Cool Splitty - 30 May 2012 15:23:24
[quote=AW]I have also heard that the reg numbers of the cars will not be transferable and will be frozen on to that vehicle. Dont know how true it is its after some one had been intouch with the powers that be and thats what it is looking like. Andy W[/quote] I have read today in a clasic car paper that a pre60 will have to have an mot cert to have the number sold on, that is the Dvla statement. Back to my prev post, there arenot many VDubs around that were on the UK roads before 1jan 1960 so if you have one hang on to it:thumbup:

Posted by: Cool Splitty - 30 May 2012 15:23:24

[quote=AW]I have also heard that the reg numbers of the cars will not be transferable and will be frozen on to that vehicle. Dont know how true it is its after some one had been intouch with the powers that be and thats what it is looking like. Andy W[/quote] I have read today in a clasic car paper that a pre60 will have to have an mot cert to have the number sold on, that is the Dvla statement. Back to my prev post, there arenot many VDubs around that were on the UK roads before 1jan 1960 so if you have one hang on to it:thumbup:

Posted by: AW - 30 May 2012 16:41:57
Thats me sorted then :thumbup: Andy W

Posted by: GKL 7 - 30 May 2012 18:45:12
Just think with the £40/50 you save on your MOT,you'll be able to pay the extra 3p a litre tax the government are adding to fuel in August.:omg: And they had the nerve to tell the petrol companies today to come up with a system to guarantee the public the best price available. Does anyone know just how much tax in total we will then be paying on a good old fashioned gallon?

Posted by: AW - 30 May 2012 18:48:43
Around here its come down about 10p a litre to what it has been so if it gose up by 3p its still 7p cheaper than it was. :p Andy W

Posted by: GKL 7 - 30 May 2012 18:54:38
And you'll settle for that will you? No wonder they get away with it. 10p a litre reduction[-x Are you sure it's dropped 1p here.

Posted by: AW - 30 May 2012 18:56:33
[quote=GKL 7]And you'll settle for that will you? No wonder they get away with it.[/quo Why not at least its not 3p on top of what it was. Andy W

Posted by: AW - 30 May 2012 19:27:37
At its most it was £1.42.9 a litre now down to £132.7 In sheffield you can get it for £130.9 If you know where to go. Andy W

Posted by: Cool Splitty - 31 May 2012 10:56:54
U can all calm down now[u] [b]no change [/b][/u]for most of you 50s owners [u][b]youll still have to get an MOT [/b][/u]All u guys wiv 50s and 40s bugs n busses that were not registerd here before 1 jan 1960 will still have to get an mot anyway.Most of the old cars here are Left H drive and wer imported later.Rekon that makes only a couple of split bugs a dozen ovals and a score of early big window 58 59s n busses that will be exempt:p

Posted by: Cool Splitty - 31 May 2012 10:56:54

U can all calm down now[u] [b]no change [/b][/u]for most of you 50s owners [u][b]youll still have to get an MOT [/b][/u]All u guys wiv 50s and 40s bugs n busses that were not registerd here before 1 jan 1960 will still have to get an mot anyway.Most of the old cars here are Left H drive and wer imported later.Rekon that makes only a couple of split bugs a dozen ovals and a score of early big window 58 59s n busses that will be exempt:p

Posted by: lifeintheslowlane - 31 May 2012 11:50:21
[quote=Cool Splitty]U can all calm down now[u] [b]no change [/b][/u]for most of you 50s owners [u][b]youll still have to get an MOT [/b][/u]All u guys wiv 50s and 40s bugs n busses that were not registerd here before 1 jan 1960 will still have to get an mot anyway.Most of the old cars here are Left H drive and wer imported later.Rekon that makes only a couple of split bugs a dozen ovals and a score of early big window 58 59s n busses that will be exempt:p[/quote] :roll:

Posted by: lifeintheslowlane - 31 May 2012 11:50:21

[quote=Cool Splitty]U can all calm down now[u] [b]no change [/b][/u]for most of you 50s owners [u][b]youll still have to get an MOT [/b][/u]All u guys wiv 50s and 40s bugs n busses that were not registerd here before 1 jan 1960 will still have to get an mot anyway.Most of the old cars here are Left H drive and wer imported later.Rekon that makes only a couple of split bugs a dozen ovals and a score of early big window 58 59s n busses that will be exempt:p[/quote] :roll:

Posted by: Old Blue - 06 June 2012 09:47:05
The requirement is that vehicles need to be manufactured before 1960, if a pre 1960 manufactured car was imported and registered last week, it will still become MOT exempt in November this year. Jon's '56 was imported recently and will qualify for MOT exemption (although lowered). Old Blue my '68 though nice and original, will not. Official based links give the build date clearly as criteria: https://assets.dft.gov.uk/consultations/dft-2011-27/mot-historic-summary-consultation-response.pdf https://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/consultations/2012/historic_vehicles_mot_exemption.pdf

Posted by: Old Blue - 06 June 2012 09:47:05

The requirement is that vehicles need to be manufactured before 1960, if a pre 1960 manufactured car was imported and registered last week, it will still become MOT exempt in November this year. Jon's '56 was imported recently and will qualify for MOT exemption (although lowered). Old Blue my '68 though nice and original, will not. Official based links give the build date clearly as criteria: https://assets.dft.gov.uk/consultations/dft-2011-27/mot-historic-summary-consultation-response.pdf https://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/consultations/2012/historic_vehicles_mot_exemption.pdf

Posted by: lifeintheslowlane - 06 June 2012 10:28:31

[quote=Old Blue]The requirement is that vehicles need to be manufactured before 1960, if a pre 1960 manufactured car was imported and registered last week, it will still become MOT exempt in November this year. Jon's '56 was imported recently and will qualify for MOT exemption (although lowered). Old Blue my '68 though nice and original, will not. Official based links give the build date clearly as criteria: https://assets.dft.gov.uk/consultations/dft-2011-27/mot-historic-summary-consultation-response.pdf https://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/consultations/2012/historic_vehicles_mot_exemption.pdf[/quote] "Cool Splity's" post was a hoax...that's why I answered with a :roll:

Posted by: Cool Splitty - 07 June 2012 10:12:52
[quote=lifeintheslowlane]"Cool Splity's" post was a hoax...that's why I answered with a :roll: [/quote] Why wood i make ahoax post like that:bored:

Posted by: merchantrader - 07 June 2012 10:52:46

I have read as much as I can about it including the Minister's announcement statement and press release on the DoT website and still find confusion between build date and registered date.I think we will have to wait until the actual legislation is passed before we really know. Honest John in the Daily Telegraph reported it would be registration date, presumably after reading the press release, so I do not think this reporting was a hoax - perhaps an incorrect assumption but we'll have to wait and see. Personally I think that a build date criteria will be wide open to scams.

Posted by: RoRoVw - 07 June 2012 14:00:49

I don't think that any further legislation will be required. All that the Government is doing is bringing the UK into line with EU regulations. Now that it has been decided to adopt this section of the regulations it will happen as a matter of course on the appointed date. No UK Parliament approval will be needed, it's just an administrative procedure. Most of these rules relate to build dates rather than to first registration dates. Cheers Rob.

Posted by: merchantrader - 07 June 2012 15:19:08

I am not a lawyer but think the Minister will have to issue a UK Statutory Instrument (i.e. legislation) to enable this change and that this will contain the detail. A previous amendment to the Construction and Use Regulations (previously mention by AW I think) has replaced "date manufactured" and "date registered" by "date first used" and date first used is defined as " For the purpose of these Regulations, the date on which a motor vehicle is first used is— (a)in the case of a vehicle not falling within sub-paragraph (b) and which is registered, the date on which it was registered; (b)in each of the following cases— (i)a vehicle which is being or has been used under a trade licence as defined in section 16 of the 1971 Act (otherwise than for the purposes of demonstration or testing or of being delivered from premises of the manufacturer by whom it was made or of a distributor of vehicles, or dealer in vehicles, to premises of a distributor of vehicles, dealer in vehicles or purchaser thereof or to premises of a person obtaining possession thereof under a hiring agreement or hire purchase agreement); (ii)a vehicle belonging, or which has belonged, to the Crown and which is or was used or appropriated for use for naval, military or air force purposes; (iii)a vehicle belonging, or which has belonged, to a visiting force or a headquarters or defence organisation to which in each case the Visiting Forces and International Headquarters (Application of Law) Order 1965 applies; (iv)a vehicle which has been used on roads outside Great Britain before being imported into Great Britain; and (v)a vehicle which has been used otherwise than on roads after being sold or supplied by retail and before being registered; the date of manufacture of the vehicle." Copied and pasted from Statutory Instrument no 1078 re the The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986. David

Posted by: RoRoVw - 07 June 2012 19:48:37

Yes I'm sure it's correct that this change is being brought about by UK Statutory Instrument, but surely we have already gone beyond that stage and the implementation has been approved and the introduction date published. No doubt the full details and how the new system will work will be published as we get nearer to the November date. 'Date first used' may well be the correct wording that we see when the full details are published. What seems important for the people with imported vehicles built before 1960 is that 'Date first used' includes use outside the UK so therefore they should become exempt from MoT testing here in the UK. It shouldn't mean that vehicles built before 1960 but imported after that date will still require an MoT. Its interesting that for the Historic Vehicle taxation class the DVLA still refer to a built before date. Rob

Posted by: Cool Splitty - 08 June 2012 12:00:32

[quote=merchantrader] Honest John in the Daily Telegraph reported it would be registration date. [/quote] Then it wont be the UK registation date.Dose anyone believe newspapers and peopole called Honest john:rofl: My pal saysIf its all tobe inline with EU regs then it wood accept a Vdubs date of reg from the EU country it came from. so all you recent split n oval n semi cars imported owners can smile again.:d :d :d :d Im looking at whats 4sale over there b4 prices go up big time:p

Posted by: Cool Splitty - 13 June 2012 14:32:06
More info 4 u all. If you import a pre60 it will still needa MOT pas before being registerd:wink:

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