A "new" Heb · International Vintage Volkswagen Forums

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51reutter
Guest Topic Starter

15 years ago

yap Colome is seeling a "new" Heb

Colomemotors

I wouldn't mind having one :wink:

cheers

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55Kab
pre67vw Junkie

15 years ago

I really like this, looks good...but, if you have the money and wanted a heb...would you buy it?

Rob?

JD
pre67vw Junkie

15 years ago

I really like this, looks good...but, if you have the money and wanted a heb...would you buy it?

Rob?

55Kab wrote:

It does look fantastic.

Depends how rich you are I suppose. Look at Memmingers customers for example. These people are more than likely making a choice between an "as new" (or rather better than new) 1303 Cabrio, or a new Mercedes roadster. They aren´t your run of the mill Beetle enthusiasts. I suppose the 53 falls into a slightly different category, as it´ll be very much an "old car" to drive, but none the less, I don´t think they´ll have trouble selling it (them?)

"John, you need to get a grip and STOP MOANING AT EVERYTHING. ThumbDown "

pre67vw
Administration

15 years ago

I really like this, looks good...but, if you have the money and wanted a heb...would you buy it?

Rob?

55Kab wrote:

Nope.

I'm sure its a great car, well made etc. But it's not a Heb, it's a replica. If I had the money I'd get a real Heb. Instead of a replica I'd rather have a tatty 356 and rag the hell out of it :beer:

Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW

JD
pre67vw Junkie

15 years ago

Nope.

But it's not a Heb, it's a replica.

pre67vw wrote:

But thats the only difference. You could equally say that it´s just a newer Heb.
Or are the Karmann built cars just replicas too?:twisted:

Edited by user 15 years ago | Reason: Not specified

"John, you need to get a grip and STOP MOANING AT EVERYTHING. ThumbDown "

pre67vw
Administration

15 years ago

You could equally say that it´s just a newer Heb.

JD wrote:

How so? It's a very accurate replica, but it's not a Heb - just like any of the other replicas are not real either.

Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW

pre67vw
Administration

15 years ago

Or are the Karmann built cars just replicas too?:twisted:

JD wrote:

Karmann built ones aren't Hebs either, they're still 14A's though. :twisted:

Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW

JD
pre67vw Junkie

15 years ago

How so? It's a very accurate replica, but it's not a Heb - just like any of the other replicas are not real either.

pre67vw wrote:

So whats the difference - except age?

"John, you need to get a grip and STOP MOANING AT EVERYTHING. ThumbDown "

pre67vw
Administration

15 years ago

Hebs were made until 1952 when the factory went out of business :?

Then Karmann made a few 14A's, then 14A's were no longer available.

I thought you knew all this JD?? :twisted:

A 1953 car that was converted into a 14A in 2009 is a replica.

Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW

pre67vw
Administration

15 years ago

#10

This Heb is so correct in every detail that it is registered with the Hebmüller Registry as a newly constructed Type-14

This is b****cks, it has't been registered as such in The Hebmüller Registry - it may be registered as something in Klaus's registry, but Yan would have it listed with the other fakes. It doesn't matter how much history you 'try' to surround it with, it doesn't change the fact that it's another replica...

Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW

JD
pre67vw Junkie

15 years ago

#11

I thought you knew all this JD?? :twisted:

A 1953 car that was converted into a 14A in 2009 is a replica.

pre67vw wrote:

I do know it.
I´m just playing devils advocate.
I don´t have any problem with replicas as long as they are 100% accurate AND you know what you´re getting when you buy it.
To me, this is a newly constructed 14A. I don´t know what else you could call it?

Edited by user 15 years ago | Reason: Not specified

"John, you need to get a grip and STOP MOANING AT EVERYTHING. ThumbDown "

pre67vw
Administration

15 years ago

#12

To me, this is a newly constructed 14A. I don´t know what else you could call it?

JD wrote:

What's the difference between a replica and a 'newly constructed'? Why isn't a fibreglass replica also a newly constructed? Could I cut the roof off a '53, put on a fibreglass Heb kit, list it with lots of Hebmuller history and claim it as being some kind of 'new' Heb? The only difference is the material that is being used, so if it's steel then it can be considered real but if it's fibreglass then it can't?

This car is a replica. One of the better replicas around, very accurate for steel (fibreglass moulds take from a real Heb are also very accurate).

The only way I think they could genuinly call it a newly constructed Heb would be if they had found some NOS 1949-1952 panels from the factory and used them to make a 14A. Pressing new panels in the shape of the old panels as accurately as possible does not make them genuine/original.

Edited by user 15 years ago | Reason: Not specified

Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW

48REME
pre67vw Junkie

15 years ago

#13

The only way I think they could genuinly call it a newly constructed Heb would be if they had found some NOS 1949-1952 panels from the factory and used them to make a 14A. Pressing new panels in the shape of the old panels as accurately as possible does not make them genuine/original.

pre67vw wrote:

Yes...it's the old debate over restoration against reconstruction. Something which will no doubt come up when the VW38 is revealed in its finished form.
Although, in the case of the Colome Heb, we're dealing with a pure invention from scratch.

Edited by user 15 years ago | Reason: Not specified

pre67vw
Administration

15 years ago

#14

I agree, but the difference there is that the core that they started with was the VW38 - there is nothing on this car that came from the Hebmuller factory.

It's like someone taking a 49 split and making it look like a VW38 and clamiming it's an original prototype that never got made, you could even hand make some of the panels just like the original! It's all bollocks

Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW

JD
pre67vw Junkie

15 years ago

#15

When you remove all descernable differences except when and where it was built? ie no glass fibre!
I´m not suggesting that you could call this a real Hebmüller. But newly built 14A seems to cover it for me (as long as one is fully aware of its origins).

"John, you need to get a grip and STOP MOANING AT EVERYTHING. ThumbDown "

pre67vw
Administration

15 years ago

#16

JD wrote:

I don't see why the material it's made from makes any difference if it looks exactly the same. Are you saying then that the metal Kübel kits are newly constructed Kübels, and they aren't replicas? Ambush%20Camo%20Kubel%20002.jpg You have insufficient rights to see the content.

Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW

JD
pre67vw Junkie

15 years ago

#17

I don't see why the material it's made from makes any difference if it looks exactly the same. Are you saying then that the metal Kübel kits are newly constructed Kübels, and they aren't replicas?

pre67vw wrote:

Where do I say its not a replica? It can be both things.
That´s all just semantics anyway.

Of course material makes a difference. Thats the whole point - removing any and all differences until it´s to all intents and purposes identical.

Say you put this car next to an identical original. You don´t know and can´t tell which is which. How do you know which one to dismiss as a fake and which one to get all excitied about?

"John, you need to get a grip and STOP MOANING AT EVERYTHING. ThumbDown "

pre67vw
Administration

15 years ago

#18

Say you put this car next to an identical original. You don´t know and can´t tell which is which. How do you know which one to dismiss as a fake and which one to get all excitied about?

JD wrote:

You stand back and admire them both, because they both look beautiful. You get excited when the guy brings out a photo album showing b&w photos of the car in the 50's next to their proud new owners, then the next page has colour photos from the 70's when it was first restored etc. and he tells you the whole history of this great car.

When the other guy pulls out his photo album and the photo of his oval still has the roof on... you might be interested in how the replica was achieved, you could be excited about the technical ability of creating such a replica...

I've got nothing against replicas, at some point I may try and build one (I love the hand built Hebzwitter that was on here a while back). It just gets my goat when people try to claim they are more than replicas, desperately trying to give their fake some provenance so that they can get big bucks out of the hobby. Maybe it's just me, I'm getting jaded by the whole thing. 😞

Edited by user 15 years ago | Reason: typo

Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW

JD
pre67vw Junkie

15 years ago

#19

... desperately trying to give their fake some provenance so that they can get big bucks out of the hobby.

pre67vw wrote:

Oh definitely - sorry I didn´t wade through the waffle on the web page, so i can´t comment.
Although that car undoubtedly cost big bucks to do.

"John, you need to get a grip and STOP MOANING AT EVERYTHING. ThumbDown "

pre67vw
Administration

15 years ago

#20

sorry I didn´t wade through the waffle on the web page, so i can´t comment.

JD wrote:

Here are some highlights:

For those who question its value: This is a historic Type-14 and it is the first one constructed exactly 60 years after production began in 1949.

This Heb is so correct in every detail that it is registered with the Hebmüller Registry as a newly constructed Type-14

The rear decklid and rear cowl and the windshield surround are manufactured by the same company that pressed the original steel for Volkswagen. That means these components are OEM to original specifications, not knockoffs!

Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW

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